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Originally Posted by Verna Perry I am right in my beliefs, and there us nothing in Scripture that says it is a sin to to boldly proclaim God's truth against the false teachings of a false prophet and/or teacher!
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
So, I am a false prophet because you do not agree with my view? I could shoot back and call you a false prophet for now agreeing with me, but I decide to keep His command and NOT judge you.
No. You are a false teacher NOT because I do not agree with your view...you are a false teacher because you teach what is contrary to the written word of God.
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Originally Posted by Verna Perry
The truth is not in you if you state that a person who does not continue in keeping the commands of God can lose their salvation.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Actually I said a saved person desires to do God's will, which would mean there is no such thing as a saved person who continues to live in habitual and willful sin.
Which in-and-of-itself, is a lie according to the word of God....because obviously there are some in this world who are born of God who do return to their sinfull ways like a dog retunrs to his vomit...thus the warning in Ezekiel 18:24-26, which you reject it as written, and instead reply to it as meaning, "...for those who aren't really born of God but who only think they are..." <(paraphrasing).
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
If a person was never saved, he/she cannot lost what they never had.
Correct. This would be those who have not yet been born again...they still willfully sin...they have not seen His face, nor do they know Him. God is not their Father. <Scripture.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
If the desire for willful sin is DEAD in a believer, then how coudl he/she lose salvation?
By making a WILLFULL choice instead, to go against any one of the commandments of God. God continually tests these individuals Finn...to be sure where there heart is on any given day! He tests them!
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It does not happen, and I don't know why you theaten people with such scenario.
It most certainly does happen! Thus the warning in Ezekiel 18: 24-26!...WHICH YOU REJECT!!!
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Originally Posted by Verna Perry
1 John 2:4 SPECIFICALLY! states: "The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You might want to read that again before passing judgement next time.
o.k..."The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
I keep His commandments Finn...do you?
Do you keep the sabbath holy unto God Finn? Saturday Sabbath Finn?...The Seventh Day Sabbath Finn?
Yes, it is nice to have the promise of Jesus Christ as a security blanket.
You do not have such blanket as you believe God put in a "impossible to renew" clause which would make is impossible for anyone to retain salvation.
Mike already explained Hebrews 6 to you, and you came right back as if you hadn't heard a word or it. Why would anyone explain anything to you since you have already decided to not listen?
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit Who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession – to the praise of His glory.” (Ephe.1:13-14)
Here is yet another site which explains Hebrews 6:4-8 simply, quickly, and clearly.
No Second Repentance? Hebrews 6:4-8 (http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1992/92july3.html - broken link)
A believer can fall away from his faith, but he cannot fall away from his eternal salvation.
Christians should always be inquisitive, and reading theologians opinions can help Christians understand God's word, but there are many lying theologians with lots of degrees. The Bible says what it says, and means what it means. TO put faith in a man, and not the word of God, is a very dangerous position to be in. You may be in fact following a false teacher who will lead you astray. To deny what scripture clearly teaches and instead listen to a man who says it really doesn't say what it clearly says is pure foolishness. God teaches us all through his word by the power of the Holy Spirit. If you are not quite understanding something, my advice is study, meditate on it, and some day, when God decides its time, he will make it clear to you.
Yes, I know. The attitude of chosing the teachings of the Bible over the teachings of men presents a brickwall for you. It is clear that when faced with the inspired words of the Bible, your doctrines of men crumble and you have nothing more to present.
It's your own suggestion that the surounding passages support your assertions and should be considered. And yet, your presentation is to provide references that direct AWAY from the Bible.
Your assertion that "fallen away" does not indicate the loss of salvation is directly contradicted by the exposition and subsequent illustration Paul provides of the principle. The description "it ends up being burned" is obviously a description of judgment and part of the overall narrative regarding those who have fallen away.
(Heb 6:4-8) 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (NASB)
It is the base tactic of theologians to attempt to "explain away" those scriptures that contradict their prefered false doctrine and I appreciate your characterization of me as being "unteachable" while you struggle and surrender when using those tactics with me. You cannot controvert the inspired word of God no matter how many philosophers' interpretations you reference.
The principle elucidated in Hebrews 6:1-8 is a direct and explicit contradiction of the false belief of "once saved, always saved".
By making a WILLFULL choice instead, to go against any one of the commandments of God. God continually tests these individuals Finn...to be sure where there heart is on any given day! He tests them!
God does not tempt people to evil.
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.
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I keep His commandments Finn...do you?
I don't think you do, as no one can. If your beliefs were correct, you would have lost your salvation a long time ago, and you'd be destined for eternal destruction. Thank God, your view is NOT correct.
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Originally Posted by LuciaMomof6 I really hope my name isn't blotted out
I am a sinner but I do trust in God and I am a Christian and I love Jesus !!
Everytime I sign on CD forum I see this thread and I thought I would throw in a little reply
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
If you trust Him, your name will never be blotted out.
What Finn Jarber fails to teach you LuciaMomof6, while he falsely teaches, is you will never be blotted out unless you return to your sinful nature like a dog returns to his vomit. Never forget that.
[QUOTEFinn_Jarber;21876196]Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
I heard someone claim that the above means that a saved person can have his name blotted out of the book of life and lose his salvation if they sin. That would imply two things:
1. A person can lose his/her salvation
2. Salvation is through works (sinless life)
Both are false.
Luke 10:20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
"He who overcomes" does not mean a sinless person, it simpleu refers to a saved person. Their names will never be blotted out of from the Lamb's Book Of Life.[/quote]
Yes you can lose your salvation. There are numerous scriptures that prove this. To say otherwise is just more easy believism. Just accept Jesus in your heart, then go on and eat, drink and be merry.
And yes, we are justified by both faith and works. Read James.
Christians should always be inquisitive, and reading theologians opinions can help Christians understand God's word, but there are many lying theologians with lots of degrees. The Bible says what it says, and means what it means. TO put faith in a man, and not the word of God, is a very dangerous position to be in. You may be in fact following a false teacher who will lead you astray. To deny what scripture clearly teaches and instead listen to a man who says it really doesn't say what it clearly says is pure foolishness. God teaches us all through his word by the power of the Holy Spirit. If you are not quite understanding something, my advice is study, meditate on it, and some day, when God decides its time, he will make it clear to you.
I will ask you to go to post#80 where I have shown from scripture, that a believer, having been positionally sanctified, is positionally sanctified forever regardless of his experiential status.
Scripture is clear. But that doesn't mean that you have a clear understanding of what it is saying. The Bible is clear for instance that Jesus Christ is God. It couldn't be more clear. But there are many who profess belief in Christ who just can't or won't see it. The same is true of the believers eternal security. It couldn't be more clear, but there are those who just don't want to see it. Look at the reply of the poster in post #91.
You did nothing to gain your salvation, (you only trusted in Christ for your salvation), and you can do nothing to lose your salvation. Again, in Post #80 I showed the scripture which states that the sacrifice of Christ eliminated sin as an issue in salvation. The only issue in salvation is whether you have trusted in Jesus Christ for your salvation.
[Yes you can lose your salvation. There are numerous scriptures that prove this. To say otherwise is just more easy believism. Just accept Jesus in your heart, then go on and eat, drink and be merry.
No, it not same as saying "go on and eat, drink and be merry". If all you want to do is "eat, drink and be merry", then it would be a good idea to examine your faith and see if you fail the test, and such person would fail the test.
You did nothing to gain your salvation, (you only trusted in Christ for your salvation.
That is doing something.
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