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So Mr princely, tell me me how Pastor Andrus has fallen short of your understanding of scripture? Note that I said Pastor Andrus. Me is not part of this discussion.
Sometimes I think that the greatest enemies of the Body are the self procalimed experts of the law. I know God and you don't, cuz my understaning is right and your's is wrong. Makes me sad. This thead is about what love is about. Or was. Now it becomes a spiritual pizzing contest.
Goodbye.
Sorry you think that way.Since you agreed with what the pastor said, you must think like Him.I was just showing you scripture that said otherwise.The sentence I used in the beginning was something Jesus said to someone who was incorrect about scripture. So ,you see Jesus was not always very nice either. It is not always about being nice to others but about serving the Lord that counts.
"Serve the Lord with fear and rejoice before Him", says the Lord.
Pastor this Sunday described love as being a freewill act. "Love" being the result of pressure, Logic, being compelled, being convinced, submitting to a lord out of having no other option in the face of spiritiual power is not the sort of love that God wants. God wants us to love him cuz we want to. Not cuz He some how compells, makes it impossible to choose another option. Smothering His goodness upon us so we just give up.
That my freinds is a forced and imposed "Love". Ain't what God wants. He want us to come of our own freewill. Not a Robowill-forced, insencere (sp?). God is above that.
Did you force your wife/husband-cause her to love you thru compelling him/her thru different tactics to acheive an end? If so, I'd recommed to do one of those prepaid legal services.
Good teaching.
Thoughts
Side note: Pastor was just talking about what real Love is about. UR stuff not something he cares about. Not part of his or my world.
Strawman, most believers in UR do not see Gods Force in the light you portray it. If you know some that do, please point out their comments specifically.
Let us look at force as SCRIPTURE defines it.
Quote:
Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Is that drawing a force? Of course it is.
Quote:
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
This is a commonly overlooked verse when Christians talk about their love for God, as if they chose to love God out of their own will. The scriptures teach contrary to that concept. This does not mean that you didn't at some point willingly love God.
That verse says precisely what the force that at least I as a "UR" will argue for on behalf of the force of God. That verse says that the ONLY reason I have any kind of Love for God is because "BECAUSE" the word in the greek carries the implication of a result of action. Gods action to LOVE me is the CAUSAL agent of my love for him.
You can argue about free will and other factors, but the fact remains that if you want to talk about force then deal with the scriptural nature of force.
I for one do not argue or agree that Gods love that caused me to love him has anything to do with the kind of scenario you are using. That force is a factor against my carnal nature , a force that eats at it and teaches me to understand and learn to come to love God.
God using force is entirely biblical, like the potter and the clay. Can a potter mould clay without applying force against it? No he cannot.
Quote:
Pr 16:9 . A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
God could not direct our steps (moulding the clay) without applying force.
It is the nature of that Force that a person must understand, but God applying force is indeed scriptural.
Strawman, most believers in UR do not see Gods Force in the light you portray it. If you know some that do, please point out their comments specifically.
Let us look at force as SCRIPTURE defines it.
Is that drawing a force? Of course it is.
This is a commonly overlooked verse when Christians talk about their love for God, as if they chose to love God out of their own will. The scriptures teach contrary to that concept. This does not mean that you didn't at some point willingly love God.
That verse says precisely what the force that at least I as a "UR" will argue for on behalf of the force of God. That verse says that the ONLY reason I have any kind of Love for God is because "BECAUSE" the word in the greek carries the implication of a result of action. Gods action to LOVE me is the CAUSAL agent of my love for him.
You can argue about free will and other factors, but the fact remains that if you want to talk about force then deal with the scriptural nature of force.
I for one do not argue or agree that Gods love that caused me to love him has anything to do with the kind of scenario you are using. That force is a factor against me carnal nature , a force that eats at it and teaches me to understand and learn to come to love God.
God using force is entirely biblical, like the potter and the clay. Can a potter mould clay without applying force against it? No he cannot.
God could not direct our steps (moulding the clay) without applying force.
It is the nature of that Force that a person must understand, but God applying force is indeed scriptural.
I agree Phazelwood. People tend to associate the word FORCE with something negative. But the truth is, there are GOOD FORCES and BAD/EVIL FORCES in the universe and the GOOD will overcome the EVIL. Why? Because God's WILL will be done in the earth.
Very well said Phazelwood (& Heartsong).
The pastor in the OP is assuming any kind of "force" must be negative.
Lets take a real world example.
The OP asks did my wife compel me to love her? Did she use any "force"?
Certainly my wife's beauty, good cooking, caring nature and sweet manner all compelled me to fall in love with her. They were a positive force that influenced me to love her.
I'm not sure why this idea of "free will choice for love" is even prevalent. Love is hardly a choice. No one chooses to fall in love. It usually strikes out of the blue when you aren't even expecting it.
The above is talking about the "affectionate" kind of love - phileo. This is something you feel. But the bible talks about another kind of love - agape. This is what we are to do. This is what God is.
I suggest rereading 1 Cor 13. Nothing there about free will choice for the recipient. It is something we should do: being patient, kind, forgiving, persevering, protecting, never failing. That is what God's love is, and that is why the pastor's point in the OP fails.
Furthermore when we read the whole bible, we see God's love, justice, and judgment all work together for one purpose: to teach us to be righteous and to be like Him. That is the point of it all.
Pastor this Sunday described love as being a freewill act. "Love" being the result of pressure, Logic, being compelled, being convinced, submitting to a lord out of having no other option in the face of spiritiual power is not the sort of love that God wants. God wants us to love him cuz we want to. Not cuz He some how compells, makes it impossible to choose another option. Smothering His goodness upon us so we just give up.
That my freinds is a forced and imposed "Love". Ain't what God wants.
Unless i am mistaken the mainstream church teaches that we are to worship and love God and His son or burn in a firey pit of torture forever, is that not coerced?
co·erced, co·erc·ing, co·erc·es 1. To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. 2. To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at force. 3. To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
Very well said Phazelwood (& Heartsong).
The pastor in the OP is assuming any kind of "force" must be negative.
Lets take a real world example.
The OP asks did my wife compel me to love her? Did she use any "force"?
Certainly my wife's beauty, good cooking, caring nature and sweet manner all compelled me to fall in love with her. They were a positive force that influenced me to love her.
I'm not sure why this idea of "free will choice for love" is even prevalent. Love is hardly a choice. No one chooses to fall in love. It usually strikes out of the blue when you aren't even expecting it.
The above is talking about the "affectionate" kind of love - phileo. This is something you feel. But the bible talks about another kind of love - agape. This is what we are to do. This is what God is.
I suggest rereading 1 Cor 13. Nothing there about free will choice for the recipient. It is something we should do: being patient, kind, forgiving, persevering, protecting, never failing. That is what God's love is, and that is why the pastor's point in the OP fails.
Furthermore when we read the whole bible, we see God's love, justice, and judgment all work together for one purpose: to teach us to be righteous and to be like Him. That is the point of it all.
I think this is basically what I was trying to get at, but I tend to talk around subjects to make my point clear, consequently diluting the point anyway.
Love is patience. Love is the absence of resentment towards someone. Love is saying what another needs to hear instead of saying what will make them feel good.
Love is caring , as if there is no love then there is no cares , in faith God requires us to come to him in love as our confidence in the Lord , ..... So if we fall into sin then our confidence in the Lord will be blocked as the love in our spirit is stalled , so receiving from God will be stalled...... See people will have a hard time loving the Lord Jesus until he put His spirit in us to help us love the Lord ..... were the spirit of the world does not like the Lord Jesus and will persuade people not to care .....So sin stalls love with faith, so if we repent and get our spirit clean by Jesus then we can be free to love the Lord and love others and be a blessing for the Lord Jesus , ....and the fruit of the spirit will grow and as we continue to develop the spirit of love which will be the same love spirit that is originally designed for Heaven and will be the same spirit we take to Heaven in our permanent life with the Lord Jesus ..... In the world there are three or four types of Love , like Eros, a selfish love , which is the same kind as sentiment type and love a other as long is it is practical to love or the Love go out and it would never be the same again, if reestablished,,,, then there is phileos , which is a brotherly love , which based of admire and honor another which is the highest form of love for the men without God spirit.......then were is storge love which is a family love which is like phileos but is mutual love , then there is agape love , which is a selfless love which free of pride and bias, which will love every one
Unless i am mistaken the mainstream church teaches that we are to worship and love God and His son or burn in a firey pit of torture forever, is that not coerced?
co·erced, co·erc·ing, co·erc·es 1. To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. 2. To dominate, restrain, or control forcibly: coerced the strikers into compliance. See Synonyms at force. 3. To bring about by force or threat: efforts to coerce agreement.
Sounds like force to me
More like presenting options. And yet many still say No Thanks to Jesus. Go figure.
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