The Gross Misrepresentation of Romans 5:12 (women, scripture, Moses, sinners)
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Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
This verse is the supposed proof text to show that we are born with sin. But if one examines it closely, it does not say that Adam's sin was passed on. To claim that it does is a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
1. SIN entered the WORLD through Adam since he was the first to sin. No one sinned before him. He, Adam, introduced sin.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
3. The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.
4. Physical death is not the result of our sin. If it were, none of us would live past our youth, or beyond when we know right from wrong. Physical death was decreed when Adam sinned.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
Where does it say "not babies"?
If "not babies" can be implied, then can "not women" also be implied? (That would be awesome for me, frankly.)
Also, how can you say "WE ALL sin" if you're saying babies haven't sinned, and some humans die as babies?
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
This verse is the supposed proof text to show that we are born with sin. But if one examines it closely, it does not say that Adam's sin was passed on. To claim that it does is a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
1. SIN entered the WORLD through Adam since he was the first to sin. No one sinned before him. He, Adam, introduced sin.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
3. The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.
4. Physical death is not the result of our sin. If it were, none of us would live past our youth, or beyond when we know right from wrong. Physical death was decreed when Adam sinned.
Katie
Ezek. 18:1-3, 20
1 ¶ The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
This verse is the supposed proof text to show that we are born with sin. But if one examines it closely, it does not say that Adam's sin was passed on. To claim that it does is a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
1. SIN entered the WORLD through Adam since he was the first to sin. No one sinned before him. He, Adam, introduced sin.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
3. The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.
4. Physical death is not the result of our sin. If it were, none of us would live past our youth, or beyond when we know right from wrong. Physical death was decreed when Adam sinned.
Katie
All have sinned because the entire human race is seminally in Adam who was the federal head of the human race.
The entire human race was condemned as a result of Adam's original sin.
Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men.
v19] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous.
The entire human race is condemned on the basis of Adam's original sin. We were MADE sinners through Adam's disobedience.
Physical death is the result of spiritual death. How does spiritual death spread to all men? Through physical birth. That is why Jesus had to be born through a virgin birth. The Old sin nature is passed through the male.
Again, man is not condemned on the basis of his personal sin, but though the trangression of Adam as Romans 5:18-19 show. And the only way that the entire human race can be condemned as a result of Adam's one transgression is if the old sin nature is physically transmitted. Man is not a sinner because he sins, but rather, man sins because he is a sinner as a result of the genetically transmitted old sin nature which the Bible also calls the flesh, and the old man.
Again, v19] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners...
To put it another way, because Adam sinned we were all made sinners.
Simply ask yourself how spiritual death could spread to all men through one man (Romans 5:12) if not through physical birth. If spiritual death was the result of each mans personal sin then that spiritual death was not through one man (Adam) which as you should be able to clearly see, the Bible says that death spread to all men through ONE man and ONE sin.
God requires a volitional decision to come to Christ for salvation. But in the case of those who are incapable of making a volitional decision (babies; severely mentally disabled individuals who were never able to understand the issue) they are automatically saved based on the work of Christ on the cross.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
This verse is the supposed proof text to show that we are born with sin. But if one examines it closely, it does not say that Adam's sin was passed on. To claim that it does is a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
1. SIN entered the WORLD through Adam since he was the first to sin. No one sinned before him. He, Adam, introduced sin.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
3. The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.
4. Physical death is not the result of our sin. If it were, none of us would live past our youth, or beyond when we know right from wrong. Physical death was decreed when Adam sinned.
Katie
You're right Katie, I agree but for a different reason.... all four points and starting paragraph are a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
Satan is a spiritual being and sinned before Adam ... therefore "death" is a spiritual as well as physical
Babies physically die ... even in the womb ( at least the last time I noticed)
Romans 5:13-14 ... happens to to say otherwise:
for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
Romans 5:13-14 ......... people still died despite not breaking one command.
The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
“Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood."
Last edited by twin.spin; 12-19-2011 at 04:40 PM..
Ezek. 18:1-3, 20
1 ¶ The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
That's right! The soul that sins is the one that dies. We do NOT inherit sin. That is a calvinist teaching, and a false one at that.
All have sinned because the entire human race is seminally in Adam who was the federal head of the human race.
The entire human race was condemned as a result of Adam's original sin.
Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men.
v19] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous.
The entire human race is condemned on the basis of Adam's original sin. We were MADE sinners through Adam's disobedience.
Again, v19] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners...
this (in a shorter version) ^^^ is scripturelly correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
God requires a volitional decision to come to Christ for salvation. But in the case of those who are incapable of making a volitional decision (babies; severely mentally disabled individuals who were never able to understand the issue) they are automatically saved based on the work of Christ on the cross.
However Mike, I'm having trouble finding a specific verse on that .... care to offer one? I still have yet been able to find where anywhere in the Bible where there is "automatic salvation".
"without faith it is impossible to please God"
"men are without excuse"
" Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies."
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