The Trinity Doctrine is False (Gospels, Easter, children, evangelists)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Assertions that you cannot prove! Your assertions are in fact the lie.
well, then I guess you'd better stop doing it!
Well then you really better stop doing it!
Really? How are we adding to or changing the Gospel, by not seeing an imaginary Trinity in it?
The concept of the trinity what? You stopped in mid sentence!
Look for what? You stopped in mid sentence again!
Ahhhhhh, noooo, no He is not! He is the Messiah, the Son of God! A father and His Son are not the same person! Jesus is the Son of God, meaning that God is His Father! His Father is a single person who is God. His Father cannot be the Trinity, otherwise that would mean that He, as part of the Trinity, would be His own Father. The NT makes it clear that the Holy Spirit caused Mary to become pregnant with Jesus, so wait! Does this mean that Jesus has two Fathers? Or Is God's own spirit, which is Holy, responsible for Fathering Jesus? Hmmmm.
The word for god used of Jesus does not imply deity. Moses and the Elders of Israel were Gods in the same sense. The word implies a powerful authority, not the Almighty!
They are one in purpose and agreement. They are not one being, and no, we do not reject the truth, we just reject your weak arguments defending a false doctrine!
I don't know what denomination you belong, but it appears that YOU are rejecting the truth because I have the boldness on WHAT IS the truth. My argument is not weakness. I am going only about WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, and NOT OF MAN MADE TEACHINGS. That is what denominations teach. Jesus is God because Jesus says so in John 10:30 and yet, you reject it because you simply IGNORE the deity of Jesus. He is not just the Messiah but he is God because the Word was God. I suggest you look in the very first chapter of the Gospel of John. Jesus is the Word of God which means the Word is God. Because Jesus is the Word, the Word IS God and that proves Jesus is God and yet you are like the Jews who deny it. And how are you adding to the Word of God and how are you changing it? Put it this way, you are simply teaching false doctrine that goes against the scriptures. YOUR doctrines are false, not mine. My doctrines ONLY come out of the Bible, not of man made teachings. I assume you reject the Trinity doctrine because you do not understand the Deity of Jesus nor His equality to God the Father. Jesus said to the Jews in John 10:30, "I an the Father are One". That means Jesus is equal with the Father and again you reject the truth. And I am NOT saying that Jesus has TWO Fathers. That is a false gospel. Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ/Messiah, the Savior, the Light of the World, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lion of Judah, the Lamb of God, the Bright and Morning Star, etc. His names are above all other names. Also, Jesus is all powerful, all knowing, and all presence like God the Father because Jesus knows everything and sees everything. That is my proof on the Godhead. And if you want to know where scriptures say that the Holy Spirit IS God. Matthew 28:19 proves that the Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is God. The Holy Spirit indwells within every Christian believer. He is our teacher, our comforter, and our guide, and our helper. Jesus said to His discples that if He does not go away, the helper will not come but if Jesus DID go away, then the helper would come, period. I am tired of having you argue with me because your teachings come into conflicts with my beliefs, simply because your beliefs are a false doctrine and my beliefs come from the Bible and THE BIBLE ONLY and NOT on made made teachings. With that said, I do not want you to argue with me anymore because it creates direct conflict with my beliefs with yours. Done.
Last edited by Jonathan Ashbeck; 02-09-2017 at 04:43 PM..
I don't do god parts, but I do look at a claim "does the trinity work"? and break it down. "what do we mean" is my first question. There is no "god of the bible.". anything to do with that god is false.
"Does the trinity work?" well, lets take a look.
Mind, body, and spirit is a valid communication method to address the needs of people.
Ask my wife, my kids, and my mom about me. all the same person.
I do not believe in magic, but from our perspective the universe has many faces (facets), 3 sides and 3 angles just makes a complex notions simpler for logistical reasons.
The trinity is a sound communication and educational strategy. And there is no "god of the bible".
Whats the big deal.
The Trinity is not an educational strategy, it is a false doctrine, and an offense to God. Many people died for not accepting it. It is a big deal!
I don't know what denomination you belong, but it appears that YOU are rejecting the truth because I have the boldness on WHAT IS the truth. My argument is not weakness. I am going only about WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, and NOT OF MAN MADE TEACHINGS. That is what denominations teach. Jesus is God because Jesus says so in John 10:30 and yet, you reject it because you simply IGNORE the deity of Jesus. He is not just the Messiah but he is God because the Word was God. I suggest you look in the very first chapter of the Gospel of John. Jesus is the Word of God which means the Word is God. Because Jesus is the Word, the Word IS God and that proves Jesus is God and yet you are like the Jews who deny it. And how are you adding to the Word of God and how are you changing it? Put it this way, you are simply teaching false doctrine that goes against the scriptures. YOUR doctrines are false, not mine. My doctrines ONLY come out of the Bible, not of man made teachings. I assume you reject the Trinity doctrine because you do not understand the Deity of Jesus nor His equality to God the Father. Jesus said to the Jews in John 10:30, "I an the Father are One". That means Jesus is equal with the Father and again you reject the truth. And I am NOT saying that Jesus has TWO Fathers. That is a false gospel. Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ/Messiah, the Savior, the Light of the World, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lion of Judah, the Lamb of God, the Bright and Morning Star, etc. His names are above all other names. Also, Jesus is all powerful, all knowing, and all presence like God the Father because Jesus knows everything and sees everything. That is my proof on the Godhead. And if you want to know where scriptures say that the Holy Spirit IS God. Matthew 28:19 proves that the Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is God. The Holy Spirit indwells within every Christian believer. He is our teacher, our comforter, and our guide, and our helper. Jesus said to His discples that if He does not go away, the helper will not come but if Jesus DID go away, then the helper would come, period. I am tired of having you argue with me because your teachings come into conflicts with my beliefs, simply because your beliefs are a false doctrine and my beliefs come from the Bible and THE BIBLE ONLY and NOT on made made teachings. With that said, I do not want you to argue with me anymore because it creates direct conflict with my beliefs with yours. Done.
Nobody asked you to comment in the first place. That's all on you, but your arguments are incredibly weak. The Matthew 28:19 argument is especially irrelevant since it says nothing about the Three being one being who is the Almighty. Mentioning the three in one sentence reveals nothing to defend this idea!
Are you a christian? Our Church (Orthodox) in Greece uses the original text in koine greek. I know very well my languange. I have nothing to do what Jewish scholars say after the death and the resurrection of our Lord. For us, they are in the wrong path because they denied the salvation in Christ and the revelation of God. Ilike so much Israel and its history, I respect them, I pray for them, I wait for their return but I DO NOT believe their interpretations. I just read them for knowledge. I believe in the One Church that our Lord established to save the whole world. "ο Ων", "εγω ειμι" all that words mean I AM, what tetragrammaton means...Ok many of you still don't believe in Christ. I hope that our heavenly God of mercy forgive your ignorance and your rejection! Paul said to advice 1-2 times a heretic, then we must leave him if he still believes his heresies...
It is you who speaks in ignorance! Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah doesn't mean the Jews don't know their own language, besides, not all Jews rejected Christ. You might remember that the entire membership of the early church was Jewish. The corruption of Christianity began with the introduction of pagan gentile ideas, which began to dominate once the early Jewish leaders were murdered or died off. The Tetragrammaton, is the Greek word meaning "four letters," which are the English transliteration of the four Hebrew letters representing God's personal name, which is normally pronounced as Yahweh. YHWH is the third person singular form of the verb "to be" in Hebrew and would correspond to "You Are" or "You Will Be" etc.. in its verb form. As a name it is not used in its verb form, but means something closer to "the one who exists" or "the being." As a name, it does not mean I Am. I Am would correspond to the first person singular Ehyeh, which can be rendered as "I Am." However, in Ehyeh ashur Ehyeh which is incorrectly translated as "I Am that I Am," Only the first occurrence of Ehyeh would possibly correspond to "I am." The second occurrence of Ehyeh would not serve as a verb but would be the name that God calls Himself. So God calls Himself Ehyeh, while we call Him Yahweh. Both Ehyeh, and Yahweh mean "The Existing One" or "The Being." God would say "I Am the Being" while we would say "You are the being." Either way, God's name is not I Am, and it certainly is not "Eigo Eimi" since the original phrase in Greek would be "Eigo Eimi Ho On" and in that casse His name would be "Ho On," not "Eigo Eimi"!!!
Ah Arius. I hope that our Lord will forgive him in His 2nd Presence. How can the Word of God, that through Him God created EVERYTHING, be a created being??? Was God without Word and Wisdom or without Spirit some time? How can it be possible? He was not Wise till he possesed His Wisdom? He was not a Holy and Living One with His Spirit? This is not logic. Saint John of Damascus explains very well the Trinity, from an orthodox perspective, in his work "Exact exposition of the Orthodox faith".
Chapter 8 An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by St John Damascene - Book 1
God's Word is His creative command ie. "Let There Be." Words are not persons! Persons are not Words! Commands, however, are words! God's Word is not a being, it is His creative force that is figuratively always with Him. Trinitarians get caught up on the word "with" and assume a person, but the word Logos had a long History in the Greek language, before it was borrowed by the Hebrew NT writers to represent God's creative expression. The Word is not a person any more than Wisdom is a person. Figurative speech appears to be entirely lost on Trinitarians. Get a clue!
Yes He called Him "My lord" and "My god." The Jews NEVER called Yahweh the LORD "My god." The Almighty is never "My lord" or MY god" to a Jew. He is "The Lord" or "The LORD" and "The God." The Jews are afraid to even speak the name of God because to them it is too Holy. They instead use Adonai "LORD" or "Ha Shem" "The Name" for fear of being too familiar. They feel it is disrespectful and even sinful to utter His name. They always used the article before God or Lord, so it would always be "The God" or "The Lord" never "My God", or "My Lord." "my god" or "my lord" would only be used in regards to human authority figures including the Human Messiah!
Jesus has a God? [Yes that's what it means when Jesus calls the Father "My God."] God has a god? [That's what it means if Jesus IS God!] God was God, is God, and will always be God. and Jesus IS God and there is proof. [No, there isn't!] John 10:30 proves that Jesus is equal with the Father. [It proves no such thing] Therefore that makes Jesus God Himself. [It most certainly does not] There's no question about it.
Oh it is very questionable to take a very common phrase and turn it into a claim to being God. It is more than questionable. It is absolutely absurd! My wife and I are one too! That doesn't make us God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashbeck
God was the same yesterday, he was the same 2,000 years ago, and God was the same since the foundation of the earth. God Himself never changes nor does His words change but seasons do change. God will always remain God.
And this has precisely no bearing on Jesus supposedly being God!
You're wrong on that series of assertions about me. But to the point of your citation, Colossians 1:16 says what it says. So does Col 1:17.
Really?, and what would that be? Don't bother, we already know your twisted understanding.
"All things" in this verse refers to a limited set of things that are specifically mentioned IN THE VERSE! None of those things has anything to do with anything created in the Genesis creation. This should be apparent to a third Grade reader. Those things are: "thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers." It is "all these things." This is the limit set on "all things" in this verse! Do these sound like anything created in Genesis?
No they absolutely do not! So you are greatly deluded my friend!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
One lonely verse doesn't challenge a major orthodoxy of two millinnea that I've reiterated here. I prefer to look at the ENTIRE Bible's worth of relevant passages. But here and now... I'll start with John One and Hebrews One. These two passages alone utterly demolish any revisionist premise about an involved topic such as the nature of Jesus, based on a theoretical "context" of one snippet.
I would love to go over all of these verses and shoot down your weak interpretations one by one! This will be fun!
It is you who speaks in ignorance! Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah doesn't mean the Jews don't know their own language, besides, not all Jews rejected Christ. You might remember that the entire membership of the early church was Jewish. The corruption of Christianity began with the introduction of pagan gentile ideas, which began to dominate once the early Jewish leaders were murdered or died off. The Tetragrammaton, is the Greek word meaning "four letters," which are the English transliteration of the four Hebrew letters representing God's personal name, which is normally pronounced as Yahweh. YHWH is the third person singular form of the verb "to be" in Hebrew and would correspond to "You Are" or "You Will Be" etc.. in its verb form. As a name it is not used in its verb form, but means something closer to "the one who exists" or "the being." As a name, it does not mean I Am. I Am would correspond to the first person singular Ehyeh, which can be rendered as "I Am." However, in Ehyeh ashur Ehyeh which is incorrectly translated as "I Am that I Am," Only the first occurrence of Ehyeh would possibly correspond to "I am." The second occurrence of Ehyeh would not serve as a verb but would be the name that God calls Himself. So God calls Himself Ehyeh, while we call Him Yahweh. Both Ehyeh, and Yahweh mean "The Existing One" or "The Being." God would say "I Am the Being" while we would say "You are the being." Either way, God's name is not I Am, and it certainly is not "Eigo Eimi" since the original phrase in Greek would be "Eigo Eimi Ho On" and in that casse His name would be "Ho On," not "Eigo Eimi"!!!
Jews know their languange but as a Greek I also know very well my languange. 'Ho On' is a participle of the verb "ειμί" which is the verb "to be" in english and in hebrew as you said ehyeh and Yahweh mean "The Existing One". Septuagint translated Exodus 3:14 like this "καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν λέγων· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν. καὶ εἶπεν· οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραήλ· ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς." which is translated "And God said to Moses 'I am who I am' (or I am the Existing One) and said 'This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel: The Existing One has sent me to you'. Trinity is not a pagan idea is the faith we have received from our apostles and our Fathers. Trinity is used to describe what we have received. We all know that the word "Trinity" is a latter addition but this is the truth. Church uses the word "Trinity" to fight heresies like these you believe that Jesus is not God or the Holy Spirit is not a Person (hypostasis).
Yes He called Him "My lord" and "My god." The Jews NEVER called Yahweh the LORD "My god." The Almighty is never "My lord" or MY god" to a Jew. He is "The Lord" or "The LORD" and "The God." The Jews are afraid to even speak the name of God because to them it is too Holy. They instead use Adonai "LORD" or "Ha Shem" "The Name" for fear of being too familiar. They feel it is disrespectful and even sinful to utter His name. They always used the article before God or Lord, so it would always be "The God" or "The Lord" never "My God", or "My Lord." "my god" or "my lord" would only be used in regards to human authority figures including the Human Messiah!
"My Lord and my God" is translated from the greek words "ο Κύριος μου" and "ο Θεός μου" which are greek translations of the hebrew words "Adon" and "El/Eloh/Elohim".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
