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Are you a christian? Our Church (Orthodox) in Greece uses the original text in koine greek. I know very well my languange. I have nothing to do what Jewish scholars say after the death and the resurrection of our Lord. For us, they are in the wrong path because they denied the salvation in Christ and the revelation of God. Ilike so much Israel and its history, I respect them, I pray for them, I wait for their return but I DO NOT believe their interpretations. I just read them for knowledge. I believe in the One Church that our Lord established to save the whole world. "ο Ων", "εγω ειμι" all that words mean I AM, what tetragrammaton means...Ok many of you still don't believe in Christ. I hope that our heavenly God of mercy forgive your ignorance and your rejection! Paul said to advice 1-2 times a heretic, then we must leave him if he still believes his heresies...
ALL originals were gone long before protestants translated. Catholicism translating remained. And Hebrew translating.
The Hebrews did err concerning Jesus--They do not err however concerning what their language translates.
Tetragramoton translates--YHWH--not I am.
You don't believe Paul--Why quote him--1Cor 8:6-- There is one God to all-the FATHER.------ not Father, son, hs.
Jesus has a God? God has a god? God was God, is God, and will always be God. and Jesus IS God and there is proof. John 10:30 proves that Jesus is equal with the Father. Therefore that makes Jesus God Himself. There's no question about it.
God was the same yesterday, he was the same 2,000 years ago, and God was the same since the foundation of the earth. God Himself never changes nor does His words change but seasons do change. God will always remain God.
Jesus taught as well-- The Father is greater than I-- Proving one means--in purpose, as it went on to say--all will be ONE with God and his son--We surely will not be God, but we will live to do Jesus Fathers will just as Jesus does-24/7,365--that means now--because Jesus was clear--Matt 7:21--Only those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom.
Yes God is always the same
undeniable fact--- From Moses on up until this very day--every true servant of the true living Godwas taught, served and worshipped--YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God.= 100% fact--so does the following---While Jesus attended the synagogues and temples, he was taught, served and worshipped--YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God.
Catholicism added God as being a trinity at their councils--no trinity was taught at the first council, it was added later--this is 100% fact.
Catholicism = 2Thess 2:3--and ALL of its branches. that became a house divided( 33,000 trinity religions) will not stand=Mark3:24-26
ALL originals were gone long before protestants translated. Catholicism translating remained. And Hebrew translating.
The Hebrews did err concerning Jesus--They do not err however concerning what their language translates.
Tetragramoton translates--YHWH--not I am.
You don't believe Paul--Why quote him--1Cor 8:6-- There is one God to all-the FATHER.------ not Father, son, hs.
Yes I believe in God the Father. My Church (Eastern Orthodox) teaches that Father is the fountainhead of the Trinity and the ONLY ONE cause of the 2 other Hypostases (Son and Spirit). This is our difference with Roman Catholic Church. Catholics believe that divine essence is primary to the Persons while we believe that Father is primary (by cause not by equality). God is One because the Father is One. And this is the start of Nicene Creed "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible... And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds... And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father..." Father is the Cause of All. His Wisdom (or Word) and His Spirit are from Him and in Him, united and undivided, co-equal and co-eternal and each hypostasis contains the other 2. Paul says there is one God to all the Father and then says and one Lord Jesus Christ through Him everything. Tetragrammaton (YWHW) in Septuagint was replaced by the word "Κύριος" which in hebrew means "Adon". So when we read "Κύριε" or "Κύριος" with "K" in Old Testament we understand that it speaks about God. So when the evangelists used "Κύριος" for Jesus you understand why we call Him God and we believe that He is God. Because the apostles who wrote the gospels and the epistles in greek and who read the Bible in greek, they knew that "Κύριος" is applied to God. Κύριος shows divinity.
"My Lord and my God" is translated from the greek words "ο Κύριος μου" and "ο Θεός μου" which are greek translations of the hebrew words "Adon" and "El/Eloh/Elohim".
You are absolutely right and Jesus is always referred to as adoni and never Adonai. Adoni is never used of the Almighty God, and Adonai is only applied to Almighty God. Jesus is not Adonai! Elohim is the generic word meaning "Powers that be," which is used of the Almighty as well as angels and human lords such as Moses, the leaders of Israel, judges and magistrates as swell as the human Messiah King. Neither of these words imply that a person is the Almighty!
Jews know their languange but as a Greek I also know very well my languange.
Really? what is a languange?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkis
'Ho On' is a participle of the verb "ειμί" which is the verb "to be" in english and in hebrew as you said ehyeh and Yahweh mean "The Existing One".
Yeah, you can skip the patently obvious and stick to just the merely obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkis
Septuagint translated Exodus 3:14 like this "καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν λέγων· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν. καὶ εἶπεν· οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραήλ· ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς." which is translated "And God said to Moses 'I am who I am' (or I am the Existing One) and said 'This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel: The Existing One has sent me to you'.
This is not the correct English translation. The correct translation is:
14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
You deliberately mistranslated the first statement as “I am who I am” when you know that the Greek says “ὁ ὤν” or “Ho On” for the second occurrence of Ehyeh in both phrases. It is dishonest to translate “Ho On” as “I Am” to suit your theological bias. It is not “ego eimi ego eimi.” It is ego eimi Ho On!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkis
Trinity is not a pagan idea is the faith we have received from our apostles and our Fathers.
The “Fathers” are uninspired men, and the Apostles never taught of a Trinity!
Trinity is used to describe what we have received. We all know that the word "Trinity" is a latter addition but this is the truth. Church uses the word "Trinity" to fight heresies like these you believe that Jesus is not God or the Holy Spirit is not a Person (hypostasis).[/quote]
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father who is Holy and who is Spirit, but the gift of holy spirit is not a person, but the active force of God’s will in action.
You are very long on assertions and very short on proof! "I Am" is not the same as "the existing one,” or the being.” I am is a common verbal phrase used by people every day, and to assert that it makes anyone God is asinine. "I am that I am" does not carry the same sense to the listener as "I Am the existing one" which is a play on words that uses the same word in two completely different ways. The first Ehyeh is a simple phrase of self identification, the same phrase people use every day to introduce themselves, but the second Ehyeh, which is the actual name of God, carries the idea of existence without cause. Ego eimi, by itself does not carry this depth of meaning, which is why "Ehyeh Ashur Ehyeh" is not translated into Greek as ego eimi ego emi, but “ego emit ho on.”
This is not the correct English translation. The correct translation is:
14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
Actually, Ehyeh Ashur Ehyeh, I will be what I will be...
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
Rashi's Commentary:
“Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)”: “I will be” with them in this predicament “what I will be” with them in their subjugation by other kingdoms. He [Moses] said before Him, “O Lord of the universe! Why should I mention to them another trouble? They have enough [problems] with this one.” He said to him, “You have spoken well. So shall you say, etc.” -[from Ber. 9b] (Not that Moses, God forbid, outsmarted God, but he did not understand what God meant, because originally, when God said, “I will be what I will be,” He told this to Moses alone, and He did not mean that he should tell it to Israel. That is the meaning of “You have spoken well,” for that was My original intention, that you should not tell such things to the children of Israel, only “So shall you say to the children of Israel,” ‘Ehyeh [I will be] has sent me.’” From tractate Berachoth this appears to be the correct interpretation. Give this matter your deliberation.) [Annotation to Rashi] [There appears to be no indication of this interpretation in tractate Berachoth.]
According to Morfix, it means "Come What May"... - Translation
Actually, Ehyeh Ashur Ehyeh, I will be what I will be...
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
Rashi's Commentary:
“Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)”: “I will be” with them in this predicament “what I will be” with them in their subjugation by other kingdoms. He [Moses] said before Him, “O Lord of the universe! Why should I mention to them another trouble? They have enough [problems] with this one.” He said to him, “You have spoken well. So shall you say, etc.” -[from Ber. 9b] (Not that Moses, God forbid, outsmarted God, but he did not understand what God meant, because originally, when God said, “I will be what I will be,” He told this to Moses alone, and He did not mean that he should tell it to Israel. That is the meaning of “You have spoken well,” for that was My original intention, that you should not tell such things to the children of Israel, only “So shall you say to the children of Israel,” ‘Ehyeh [I will be] has sent me.’” From tractate Berachoth this appears to be the correct interpretation. Give this matter your deliberation.) [Annotation to Rashi] [There appears to be no indication of this interpretation in tractate Berachoth.]
According to Morfix, it means "Come What May"... - Translation
I have no problem with this translation and interpretation. I was speaking of his misrepresentation of the LXX Greek translation. He says He is a Greek speaker, which I have no reason to doubt, but He thought I wouldn't catch it when He misrepresented the English translation from the Greek of the LXX as if it read "ego eimi ego eimi" or "I am I am" when it is actually "ego eimi Ho On" or "I am the being" I have no doubt about your understanding of the Hebrew text, but the Greek text is misrepresented when "Ho On" is translated as "I am." It is a theological attempt to make Jesus simple words of self identification into a claim of being God.
I have no problem with this translation and interpretation. I was speaking of his misrepresentation of the LXX Greek translation. He says He is a Greek speaker, which I have no reason to doubt, but He thought I wouldn't catch it when He misrepresented the English translation from the Greek of the LXX as if it read "ego eimi ego eimi" or "I am I am" when it is actually "ego eimi Ho On" or "I am the being" I have no doubt about your understanding of the Hebrew text, but the Greek text is misrepresented when "Ho On" is translated as "I am." It is a theological attempt to make Jesus simple words of self identification into a claim of being God.
Jesus in John always say I am, I am, I am. Why do you think he says that? God always says in the prophets I am Lord, I am Lord etc. Why the apostles call Him "Lord"? I said that in the greek text "Κύριος" is used instead of "YWHW" because YWHW is sacred. And apostles when they speak about Jesus they write "Κύριος" with "K" and not with "κ" as I call "κύριος" you and othen men. This shows divinity too. Also, Jews, when they read YWHW, they spell ADONAI. Adon means Lord isn't it?
Yes I believe in God the Father. My Church (Eastern Orthodox) teaches that Father is the fountainhead of the Trinity and the ONLY ONE cause of the 2 other Hypostases (Son and Spirit). This is our difference with Roman Catholic Church. Catholics believe that divine essence is primary to the Persons while we believe that Father is primary (by cause not by equality). God is One because the Father is One. And this is the start of Nicene Creed "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible... And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds... And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father..." Father is the Cause of All. His Wisdom (or Word) and His Spirit are from Him and in Him, united and undivided, co-equal and co-eternal and each hypostasis contains the other 2. Paul says there is one God to all the Father and then says and one Lord Jesus Christ through Him everything. Tetragrammaton (YWHW) in Septuagint was replaced by the word "Κύριος" which in hebrew means "Adon". So when we read "Κύριε" or "Κύριος" with "K" in Old Testament we understand that it speaks about God. So when the evangelists used "Κύριος" for Jesus you understand why we call Him God and we believe that He is God. Because the apostles who wrote the gospels and the epistles in greek and who read the Bible in greek, they knew that "Κύριος" is applied to God. Κύριος shows divinity.
There was no capitalization in the original Koine greek texts. No distinction was made between capitals and lower case letters so the difference between Kurios and kurios is not apparent. Translating as if it was as title for God is a theological statement and not a strict translation since kurios with a lower case k could not be distinguished from Kurios with a capital K. Strongs concordance gives it as:
kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.
There is nothing demanding this word to be a title for the Almighty!
Jesus is never called "Adonai" or "the Lord" which is reserved for the Almighty. Jesus is adoni or "my Lord" which is a title for a human lord including the Messiah king.
Last edited by Nivram; 02-11-2017 at 10:53 AM..
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