Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You have the right to your opinion. I prefer the more sure Word of God. As I have already provided Biblical proof that the soul does not sleep or cease to exist, it is pointless to go over it again. If those you referred to believe in soul sleep then they are not mainstream. But they too have the right to their opinion.
And the word of John Gill, whoever he was
You are in fact very much relying on the words of mere men as it appears.
Nowhere, in the Scriptures will you find the words "immortal soul."
You will not find mortal soul either, so what proof you have? If a soul is not mortal, than it is immortal, it is as simple as that. The body is mortal and has to be changed into immortality. The soul has to be purified and sanctified. If somebody does not crucify his sin nature through the Holy Spirit by repentance from sin, he will perish. Awake to righteousness and sin not (1. Cor 15:34).
Mainstream Christianity MAY state they believe that. I personally know of 'mainstream' Christians, including ministers who believe we are in the grave when we die until we get resurrected. I even argued with that minister at one time, lol.
I think your reasoning and logic in this area is as messed up as 'mainstream' Christianity. Your take does not make sense from the beginning when Satan told Adam and Eve they would not surely DIE if they disobeyed God. Paul called DEATH the last enemy to be abolished, how is it an enemy if we are quite happy, in many cases happier than in this body, after death?
You lean toward the bias that makes you most comfortable. I was comfortable with your version also in my younger days, but many passages caused me conflict and after reading MANY authors with differing views, unconsciousness between death and resurrection seems the most apparent in scriptures. I am much closer to the day of my death now and am quite ok knowing my life is in God's control. You can come back with the implication of cults all you want but in my opinion what you offer is quite cultish.
Have a great day!
Great reply...I also had confusion over those tpes of passages until I decided that i desired THE truth and not a warm fuzzy...I am also beginning to see that being saved occurs at the resurrection AFTER one has one the race, but that is just theory right now...I would stay away from others writings, I feel sometimes that they "guide" you to where the author wants you and may cause you to see through their lens instead of the lens of the Word...
yes as i have said before the soul is what makes you you another words an individual. once you take your last breath it the soul is gone where it goes nobody knows . also the first usage of any word is important, once said by god that settles it,twice same word that establishes it,third time a word is used its complete. also there is absolutely no tribulation for a born again one as u have said. also my bible says the dead in christ rise first then those of us that are alive shale be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air ect thats the proper as i read it . says nothing about those believers who have died and are in heaven being ressurected, makes no sense then if the dead in christ are already in heaven why does christ have to return for them,still the great lie from gen.thou shalt not surly die. cor 15 doesnt say any thing about the dead being in heaven. cor 15 says the corruptible ( the dead in christ) shale put on incorruption the mortal on inmortality.
yes as i have said before the soul is what makes you you another words an individual. once you take your last breath it the soul is gone where it goes nobody knows . also the first usage of any word is important, once said by god that settles it,twice same word that establishes it,third time a word is used its complete. also there is absolutely no tribulation for a born again one as u have said. also my bible says the dead in christ rise first then those of us that are alive shale be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air ect thats the proper as i read it . says nothing about those believers who have died and are in heaven being ressurected, makes no sense then if the dead in christ are already in heaven why does christ have to return for them,still the great lie from gen.thou shalt not surly die. cor 15 doesnt say any thing about the dead being in heaven. cor 15 says the corruptible ( the dead in christ) shale put on incorruption the mortal on inmortality.
I'll tell you what, all of you soul sleepers. When you die you can all go extinct and cease to exist if you wish , but as for me, I will be in heaven when I die just as the Bible teaches.
Says nothing? The resurrection of the Church Age believer occurs at the rapture of the church. When the rapture occurs, Jesus will bring with Him from heaven those who have died (fallen asleep). When the Lord returns for those believers who are physically alive on the earth, He will bring with Him from heaven those who have fallen asleep which is a reference to physical death which is separation of the soul from the body. The body goes into the grave, the soul goes to heaven.
1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him (from heaven where He is returning from ) those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
At the time of the rapture those believers who have died and are in heaven (the dead in Christ) will return with Christ from heaven to the air and they shall rise first. That is, their bodies will be resurrected, and then those believers who are still physically alive on the earth will be caught up into the air and their bodies will be transfomed into bodies of imperishability and immortality. Now put 1 Thess. 4:13-17 together with 1 Cor. 15:51-54.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep (those believers who are physically alive at the time of the rapture), but we will all be changed, 52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53] For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54] But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
And can you soul sleepers not understand the meaning of what Peter said when he spoke of his impending death?
2 Peter 1:13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
Peter's language is not indicative of soul sleep. Peter speaks of laying aside his body, his earthly dwelling and departing. He says that as long as he is in his earthly dwelling which is his body he will remind his audience to those things which he had previously taught them. And then he speaks of the laying aside of his body.
The laying aside of the body is not the language of cessation of existence of the soul or of the soul sleeping. It is the language coming out of the body and departing and going somewhere.
First usage of nephesh ? Genesis 2:7
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Adam was created body, soul and spirit. The body was formed out of the dust of the earth. When God breathed the breath of life into the body Adam became a living being. He had both physical life and soul life.
But at physical death, the soul and spirit of the believer depart from the body. The body is laid aside as Peter stated.
And can you people truly not understand that when Jesus said that man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul that that means that the soul survives the death of the body?
Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And can you not understand that Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4 show believers in heaven prior to resurrection?
Now I'll approach this from another aspect. When the body dies the soul leaves the body and goes somewhere else. The soul of the unbeliever goes to the 'torments' side of Hades. But because the believer has been given eternal life (that is life in relationship with God) when he departs from his body at physical death he goes into the presence of God. Since eternal life has been imputed to the soul of the believer how then can the soul cease to exist when the body dies? It cannot. For if the soul of the believer ceased to exist then that would mean that eternal life had never been imputed to it. Oh, you don't believe that the believer has already been given eternal life? The Word of God says otherwise.
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive [Aorist Indicative; denotes action that occurred in the past time] together with Christ (by grace you are saved) , 6] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8] For by grace you are saved (have been saved; see verse 5) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Before a person believes on Christ for eternal life he is dead even though he is physically alive. But when a person trusts in Christ for salvation, eternal life is imputed to his soul at that very moment and therefore he will live in the presence of God in heaven even though his body dies.
Last edited by Michael Way; 05-25-2013 at 09:37 AM..
And can you people truly not understand that when Jesus said that man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul that that means that the soul survives the death of the body?
Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Can you not understand that death is inevitable for "surely you will die."
If not for the Resurrection, you would "surely, remain dead" having no life?
Perhaps, it's time for one's thoughts to catch up to their body.
Not that of the body being caught up in the clouds of the air.
That we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro, by the waves.
And carried about by every wind of doctrine, conceived within the minds of men.
Can you not understand that death is inevitable for "surely you will die."
If not for the Resurrection, you would "surely, remain dead" having no life?
Perhaps, it's time for one's thoughts to catch up to their body.
Not that of the body being caught up in the clouds of the air.
That we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro, by the waves.
And carried about by every wind of doctrine, conceived within the minds of men.
Can YOU not understand that the Bible speaks of different categories of death. Physical death is merely the separation of the soul from the body. The body dies. The soul does not. But this has already been explained.
Can YOU not understand that the Bible speaks of different categories of death.
Physical death is merely the separation of the soul from the body.
The body dies. The soul does not. But this has already been explained.
In the Final Analysis, "All are set free from the bondage of sin and death."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, but as for me, I will be in heaven when I die just as the Bible teaches. 
