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But what is the purpose of all this judgment and wrath? To teach righteousness and correct. When your judgments come in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness......
That is why God is not wrath, because His wrath ends. God is love, and His love never ends.
If you refer to post #25 the only way the wrath of God is removed is by the subjective requirement of the person that God has also established.
That subjective requirement is not granted as an open ended time of grace that lasts unconditionally be it now while alive or after death.
Rev 15:1 the wrath of God ends, but the conditions for those who are objects of that wrath will never end. Their plight will never end.. for they will be like how the saying goes: "out of sight - out of mind"
Sin was paid for at the cross and is therefore not the issue in salvation. The issue in eternal salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. When a person dies never having believed in Christ, though he dies in his sins (John 8:24) he is not condemned on the basis of his sins, again because those sins were already judged at the cross. But rather the unbeliever is condemned because in rejecting God's provision of salvation and therefore not being imputed with God's own righteousness, the unbeliever has only his own relative human righteousness to stand on, and God must always reject human righteousness. Therefore it is his own human righteousess which condemns the unbeliever to spending the eternal future in the lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15).
If anyone dies never having trusted in Jesus Christ for eternal life, his eternal abode will be in the lake of fire. So says the word of God.
And what if a man asks forgiveness after he has been "condemned?"
THIS is the question.
According to ET, God will not forgive anymore.
But UR says that God is a forgiving, reasonable (not unreasonable), merciful, loving God.
This is the Gospel and Good News.
And what if a man asks forgiveness after he has been "condemned?"
THIS is the question.
According to ET, God will not forgive anymore.
But UR says that God is a forgiving, reasonable (not unreasonable), merciful, loving God.
This is the Gospel and Good News.
Blessings,
brian
You do not quote UR correctly .....
UR says that God is a forgiving, reasonable (not unreasonable), merciful, loving God to those who reject him expecially after death.... despite saying otherwise.
UR says that God is a forgiving, reasonable (not unreasonable), merciful, loving God to those who reject him expecially after death.... despite saying otherwise.
God is a reasonable God, who doesn't punish people unreasonably for their error. When the guilty has served his time, he is released.
ET is unreasonable punishment. No parent punishes his/her child more than what is reasonable. And punishment is for our good, not just to say, "I'm right, you're wrong."
ET is not only unreasonable. It paints a false picture of a Loving Father.
The wrath of God IS an attribute of God. It is as much a part of God as any other attribute.
He is JUST and HE demands JUSTICE. He is willing to be ANGRY, WRATHFUL and PUNISHING, if need be.
If you deny these characteristics of God, then you DO NOT know who God is.
The wrath of God is His hatred of all unrighteousness. It is His displeasure and indignation against all evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin.
God is angry against sin because it is a rebelling against His authority, His sovereignty. Insurrectionists against God shall be made to know that God is the Lord. They shall be made to feel how great that Majesty is which they despise. They will find out how dreadful that wrath in which they so little regard in this lifetime.
Some people hate the concept of a God who possesses wrath. All people want to know about God is about His love. Men create in their minds the concept of a God who is all love and nothing else. They create an idol in their heads.
The Bible, however, is absolute about the fact that God is a God of wrath. God’s wrath is the reason for the necessity of the Gospel. Atonement and salvation by grace are required because of God’s righteous wrath against sin.
For the believer, deliverance from wrath is our great hope, and God’s wrath is turned aside for believers by the Blood of Christ.
God’s wrath against sinners is so great that He sent His Son to die in the place of those who were to be redeemed.
If we deny the wrath of God, we essentially deny the gospel.
The wrath of God IS an attribute of God. It is as much a part of God as any other attribute.
He is JUST and HE demands JUSTICE. He is willing to be ANGRY, WRATHFUL and PUNISHING, if need be.
If you deny these characteristics of God, then you DO NOT know who God is.
The wrath of God is His hatred of all unrighteousness. It is His displeasure and indignation against all evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin.
God is angry against sin because it is a rebelling against His authority, His sovereignty. Insurrectionists against God shall be made to know that God is the Lord. They shall be made to feel how great that Majesty is which they despise. They will find out how dreadful that wrath in which they so little regard in this lifetime.
Some people hate the concept of a God who possesses wrath. All people want to know about God is about His love. Men create in their minds the concept of a God who is all love and nothing else. They create an idol in their heads.
The Bible, however, is absolute about the fact that God is a God of wrath. God’s wrath is the reason for the necessity of the Gospel. Atonement and salvation by grace are required because of God’s righteous wrath against sin.
For the believer, deliverance from wrath is our great hope, and God’s wrath is turned aside for believers by the Blood of Christ.
God’s wrath against sinners is so great that He sent His Son to die in the place of those who were to be redeemed.
If we deny the wrath of God, we essentially deny the gospel.
Katie
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Katie,
Question: will there be a point where God is no longer angry? Or will God be angry forever?
Wrath is not an attribute of God. It is simply something that He shows, for a purpose.
Its like this:
God shows love. And God is love.
God shows wrath. But God is not wrath.
God is love defines His essence.
But no where are we told God is wrath.
We therefore must ask what does it mean when God shows wrath. Why does God get angry? How does this not conflict with His essence, which is love.
The answer is that all wrath is for chastisement, pruning, refining, and correction. That is the punishment that a parent gives to the child. Not punishment for punishment's sake, but punishment for discipline and correction.
Just how I see it. Otherwise we are left with the contradiction of hate and love.
Agree. I do believe that many will experience the wrath of God. There is no contradiction. God's plan is to subject all to Himself so that He may be all in all and experiencing the judgments of God are a part of the process. God bless and peace.
Love is more than attribute. Love is essence. That is why it is said God is love.
But wrath is neither attribute or essence. It is just something that God does or shows.
God is also just, holy, and merciful. And jealous (understanding the correct meaning of jealous here).
These attributes are all non-contradictory and in harmony. So if we understand one, we can understand all. We can understand love, because it is so well-defined in scripture. Therefore we can see what being just, holy, and merciful is.
Right, Legoman. God is love. He is never said to "be" wrath. God bless and peace.
And what if a man asks forgiveness after he has been "condemned?"
THIS is the question.
According to ET, God will not forgive anymore.
But UR says that God is a forgiving, reasonable (not unreasonable), merciful, loving God.
This is the Gospel and Good News.
Blessings,
brian
The window of opportunity runs out at the point of physical death. After that, it is to late. Universalism is not good news, but is a lie from Satan.
This life is a probationary period in which Man can use his God given volition to respond to the gospel or to reject it. Man's volition is tied to the angelic conflict in which Man's volition resolves this conflict.
Just as the angels who rebelled were sentenced to the lake of fire, which is to be carried out at the end of human history (after the Millennium), mankind is given the opportunity to respond positively to the gospel in this life to demonstrate to the angels that they were without excuse for their rebellion, or to reject the gospel and share the same punishment as the fallen angels (Matt 25:41).
This life is the battlefield for Man. After this life any given member of the human race is taken out of the angelic conflict and his participation in it is over. He either goes to heaven if he is a believer in Jesus Christ or goes to the 'torments' side of Hades to await his final and permanent imprisonment in the lake of fire if he died without trusting in Christ for eternal salvation.
The angels no longer have the opportunity to choose. They have already chosen which side they are on and their eternal future is set. And so also, after anyone dies physically they no longer have any opportunity to choose, and their eternal future is set.
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