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The difference in Jesus' words and the spirit in which they are spoken and what he means by them are poles apart from your hate filled rant.
Even the unbelieving Jews weren't so dense, they knew exactly what he meant ......
they had just protested the fact that Jesus implied that they were " illegitimate children," and outright " liars”
(Jesus): Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
( illegitimate children," \ " liars): “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
(Jesus): "He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Jesus who claimed to be the God (I am), said: Philippians 3:2, Revelation 22:15, Revelation 14:10, John 3:36, Matthew 25:31-46
\\\\\ pcamps ... the next time you read the Bible, read John 8:31-58 without photo shopping it to get your "love" meaning. You might even surprise yourself)
Corinthians 13. My personal favorite verse in the bible.
When we think God could possibly possess the attributes of human weaknesses, we are essentially, unknowingly waving a white flag. Asking for help.
Those who do not love, do not know God... because God is love.
This is very important!! Pay attention! how many will say... "I love!!! how dare you say I am not loving and I don't know God!!"
But pay attention, my brothers and sisters.
When you do NOT love in any given moment, you are, in that moment, NOT KNOWING God. I repeat... you are, in that moment, NOTKNOWINGGOD.
PONDER that. please. I beg you.
WHEN DO WE LOVE and WHEN DO WE KNOW GOD??
HERE IS YOUR ANSWER:
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 [b] bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails..
LOVE. How many truly understand the power?
There is nothing more powerful than LOVE. GOD IS LOVE.
WHEN WE LOVE, WE ARE KNOWING GOD. WHEN WE ARE NOT LOVING, WE ARE NOT KNOWING GOD.
In any given moment, when we are UNKIND. Or IMPATIENT. Or holding wrongs against others. Or when we are jealous of others. Or when we discard hope. WE ARE NOT KNOWING GOD.
When we are patient with others. when we forgive. when we do not hold wrongs against others.. WE ARE KNOWING GOD.
I would not consider wrath an attribute of God. However, God is just. Rebellion against God's law and his will is a rebellion against his ownership and authority over us, and so in His justice, God punishes rebellion. We can also see that sin is something that causes harm to others. In that way also, justice is required, because of the harm that one person's sin causes another. Wrath is result of God's justice, but I don't think its an attribute. The Bible says God is just, but it does not say God is wrath.
I would agree with you. Wrath is really not an attribute of Christ nor is it a defining characteristic of His nature. Scripture portrays God as being slow to anger, but never as God being wrath or "God is wrath":
Psa 103:8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
Actually, the OP is really not so original. I recall reading some of it from AW Pink's books years ago. Pink himself being heavily influenced by the Protestant Reformer (Puritan) Stephen Charnok's definitive book: "The Existence and Attributes of God".
In any event, it appears that the OP simply cribbed (plagiarized perhaps?...lol) what was written here:
Actually, wrath is not a godly characteristic. We are told repeatedly not to have or give way to wrath. Wrath itself being called a work of the flesh:
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
We are told to put away all wrath. Not some wrath, but rather all wrath:
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
If wrath is a good and defining characteristic of Christ (as the OP thinks), then why should it not be for those who follow Christ? After all, are we not to be perfect as our Father is (Mat 5:48)?
One of the principal teachings of Jesus concerning God (that is: Jesus Himself, the rich ruler being ignorant of whom he was speaking to) is that: God is good:
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Jesus also tells us where evil thoughts (such thoughts as those of the ETer's) concerning a good God originate from:
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
The real issue I've discovered (after years of studying the subject matter) can be traced back to the translators and their translation of the scriptures that supposedly "support" and teach the ETer's doctrines. Not the actual scriptures themselves, mind you.
Evil hearts read these translations, embrace them as being "truth", create doctrines about them, and consequently bring forth the evil treasures of their very own hearts, where the "treasure" now lives. Just like Jesus told us.
12 Giving thanks to the Father who did make us meet for the participation of the inheritance of the saints in the light,
13 who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
18 And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first,
19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, 20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself -- having made peace through the blood of his cross -- through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens (YLT)
God loves the children of the devil, the dogs, the unbelievers, liars, the haters, the illegitimate children, sinners, all who are sick and in need of a doctor. All ultimately belong to Him as He created all things. "
"From Him, through Him, and to Him are all things..." (Romans 11:36)
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-03-2012 at 09:26 PM..
I will never understand why religious people despise God's mercy. It is incomprehensible. People who are motivated by fear do not understand the love of God. They really do not.
I will never understand why religious people despise God's mercy. It is incomprehensible. People who are motivated by fear do not understand the love of God. They really do not.
The ETer's motivation is actually rooted in the natural mind, the natural man, as scripture defines it. That part of man that does not receive the things of the Spirit:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The natural man, that nature of man, is unable and unwilling to believe what the scriptures proclaim. Namely:
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Nor does it believe the Gospel and it's proclamation:
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sinsaccording to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
That Gospel revealed by Isaiah (according to the scriptures), here:
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The natural man simply can not and will not believe the Good News of the Gospel. Nor can it proclaim the Good News to the world, that:
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
They themselves being lost from it's truth:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The ETer's proclaim a very different gospel than those who are born of the Spirit.
The gospel of the ETer is rooted in their own religious evil hearts. They offer the world and spread a false gospel founded upon human will, a gospel that has it's ultimate deciding factor based upon human choice and merit (like a poker chip being bet on black or red), rather than being a proclamation of truth founded upon the work of Christ.
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