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Thrill-o-byte, can you believe in/on Jesus Christ without being a BIBLE-ean? 66 books, that's a clue as in a RED FLAG.
Heartsong
I believe one can believe in/on Jesus as the Way, The Truth and The Life, even if one is "enlightened" later in life that the Bible is not the "pure, undiluted" Word of God, but it IS the Word of God. I'm sorry, Heartsong, I don't know what you mean about 66 books being a red flag.
One can take the position that Bible is like parables--its truths hidden from the wise and revealed to babes; that reading, the proud and haughty should not perceive, lest the message should be revealed to them and they should repent and believe. Revelation certainly is an example of this to an extent.
Someone once said revelation is easy to understand. Can you imagine a more ignorant statement? With literally thousands of different interpretations out there; Billy Graham himself saying he can't make heads or tails out of it and this person has the conceit to say (s)he has been given divine understanding to comprehend what hundreds of the best Bible scholars have no clue about? Astonishing, simply astonishing.
I believe one can believe in/on Jesus as the Way, The Truth and The Life, even if one is "enlightened" later in life that the Bible is not the "pure, undiluted" Word of God, but it IS the Word of God. I'm sorry, Heartsong, I don't know what you mean about 66 books being a red flag.
One can take the position that Bible is like parables--its truths hidden from the wise and revealed to babes; that reading, the proud and haughty should not perceive, lest the message should be revealed to them and they should repent and believe. Revelation certainly is an example of this to an extent.
Someone once said revelation is easy to understand. Can you imagine a more ignorant statement? With literally thousands of different interpretations out there; Billy Graham himself saying he can't make heads or tails out of it and this person has the conceit to say (s)he has been given divine understanding to comprehend what hundreds of the best Bible scholars have no clue about? Astonishing, simply astonishing.
I actually believe in the scriptures. What I do not believe in is 99.9% of the so called churches understanding of it.
Jesus taught us to come to him and to learn of him, he did not say come to my organization and learn of them. Yes I know there apostles,teachers and prophets, but if they are not telling us that the least of us to the greatest can know him (Jer 31:34)and learn of him directly they are thieves (John 10:1) and stealing away from us our God given right to boldly approach the throne of grace ( Heb 4:16)by a new and living way. (Heb 10:20).
I actually believe in the scriptures. What I do not believe in is 99.9% of the so called churches understanding of it.
Jesus taught us to come to him and to learn of him, he did not say come to my organization and learn of them. Yes I know there apostles,teachers and prophets, but if they are not telling us that the least of us to the greatest can know him (Jer 31:34)and learn of him directly they are thieves (John 10:1) and stealing away from us our God given right to boldly approach the throne of grace ( Heb 4:16)by a new and living way. (Heb 10:20).
But this is what I don't understand: Christ made it clear that He would hide the truths of the Kingdom from the wise (proud) and make it available only to those with the willingness to learn the truth. Not everyone is capable of understanding the deeper mysteries of the Bible.
Here's the paradox: God said, "Study to show thyself approved" and "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings." But studying a matter diligently almost always leads to conflict among peers. Witness the debates, arguments, etc going on in here, much less all around the world as a result of seeking out the truth. Searching out a matter invariably leads to strife, envy, conflict, even bloodshed among God's people because it results in a plethora of conflicting opinions due to the very complexity of the scriptures. In my opinion, God would have served us much better by just making the text clear as pure water so there could be no misunderstanding. "Why not just say, "He who sins shall burn forever in eternal agony"--period! Not adding on top of everything, "they shall also be burned up until they are dust under your feet" and then on top of that, "Jesus is the Savior of ALL men and He will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth." So we have sinners, being tormented for all eternity, being annihilated, and being saved. I mean no wonder we all bicker and dispute in here. Everyone has solid scripture to support their view. But who am I to tell God how to write His Word.
This is why I think the texts have been seriously tampered with. It just doesn't make any sense that God would confuse us to the point of killing each other.
But this is what I don't understand: Christ made it clear that He would hide the truths of the Kingdom from the wise (proud) and make it available only to those with the willingness to learn the truth. Not everyone is capable of understanding the deeper mysteries of the Bible.
Here's the paradox: God said, "Study to show thyself approved" and "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings." But studying a matter diligently almost always leads to conflict among peers. Witness the debates, arguments, etc going on in here, much less all around the world as a result of seeking out the truth. Searching out a matter invariably leads to strife, envy, conflict, even bloodshed among God's people because it results in a plethora of conflicting opinions due to the very complexity of the scriptures. In my opinion, God would have served us much better by just making the text clear as pure water so there could be no misunderstanding. "Why not just say, "He who sins shall burn forever in eternal agony"--period! Not adding on top of everything, "they shall also be burned up until they are dust under your feet" and then on top of that, "Jesus is the Savior of ALL men and He will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth." So we have sinners, being tormented for all eternity, being annihilated, and being saved. I mean no wonder we all bicker and dispute in here. Everyone has solid scripture to support their view. But who am I to tell God how to write His Word.
This is why I think the texts have been seriously tampered with. It just doesn't make any sense that God would confuse us to the point of killing each other.
But man would.
Thrill
I have no doubt the scriptures have been tampered with. In saying that, while the eyes of our understanding remain in the mode of being sin conscious( If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness Matt 6:23)we will interpret scripture and our understanding of God by it. Just scroll down the thread titles on this forum and see what Christianity is focused on and loves discussing.
He didn't gives us a bible to set us free, He revealed Himself to set us free ( I AM the Truth)and there is only one place that he does this:
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 2 Cor 4:6
In my opinion, God would have served us much better by just making the text clear as pure water so there could be no misunderstanding. "Why not just say, "He who sins shall burn forever in eternal agony"--period! Not adding on top of everything, "they shall also be burned up until they are dust under your feet" and then on top of that, "Jesus is the Savior of ALL men and He will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth." So we have sinners, being tormented for all eternity, being annihilated, and being saved. I mean no wonder we all bicker and dispute in here. Everyone has solid scripture to support their view. But who am I to tell God how to write His Word.
A couple theories of mine as to why this is the case:
I'm sure the bible isn't the only religious text over which there are disputes. Perhaps part of the problem is that people are relying too heavily on ancient religious texts to figure out God, a God who already resides in each and every heart and is communicating with them directly.
Another way I've looked at is that the bible is like a mirror. What someone gets out of it depends on what's already going on in their mind and heart upon looking at it. There's a saying that we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. I think this also applies when it comes to what one sees in the bible.
For example, someone who wants women to be nothing more than doormats will focus on and interpret scripture to support that view. Someone who wants those they don't like to get what's coming to them will interpret and focus on scripture that seems to suggest the most vile punishments for (those they consider) evildoers.
When I bear this in mind, I realize that people aren't telling me about what the bible says, the bible is telling me about them! As Karl Barth once said, “I have read many books, but the bible reads me.”
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This is why I think the texts have been seriously tampered with.
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Reminds me of Jeremiah 8:8: "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’” This doesn't stop folks from arguing about the Law and which commandments to follow (if any), though!
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It just doesn't make any sense that God would confuse us to the point of killing each other. But man would.
I agree. It's what I consider the Religious Spirit. I think what may be happening is that people take what should have been private, one-on-one communications from God to the individual and attempt to make it into some one-size-fits-all proclamation applicable to all mankind.
I know for myself that I felt much more at peace about this kind of thing when I stopped trying to mold myself according to the expectations of any particular religious organization or ancient holy writ, and instead started just leaning more on what I sense the Lord is conveying to me personally. I also try to remember that whatever I think it is He is telling me applies to me, not to the other guy. I'll share it if I think it might help in giving another perspective on things (as I'm doing in forums like this one), but it's nothing over which I feel compelled to instigate some self-righteous holy-war.
And that has gone further than any other method prescribed by religion in producing within me a "peace which passes all understanding"!
I have no doubt the scriptures have been tampered with. In saying that, while the eyes of our understanding remain in the mode of being sin conscious( If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness Matt 6:23)
What does a Hebrais Idiom meaning, to be greedy, have to do with it?...
I believe one can believe in/on Jesus as the Way, The Truth and The Life, even if one is "enlightened" later in life that the Bible is not the "pure, undiluted" Word of God, but it IS the Word of God. I'm sorry, Heartsong, I don't know what you mean about 66 books being a red flag.
One can take the position that Bible is like parables--its truths hidden from the wise and revealed to babes; that reading, the proud and haughty should not perceive, lest the message should be revealed to them and they should repent and believe. Revelation certainly is an example of this to an extent.
Someone once said revelation is easy to understand. Can you imagine a more ignorant statement? With literally thousands of different interpretations out there; Billy Graham himself saying he can't make heads or tails out of it and this person has the conceit to say (s)he has been given divine understanding to comprehend what hundreds of the best Bible scholars have no clue about? Astonishing, simply astonishing.
I have no problem with the book of Revelation. I do have a problem with many interpretations of it. I love the scriptures. But the bible is not the WORD of God. Jesus Christ is the WORD of God and the Holy Spirit must lead me into all truth.
There are most definitely some things written in the bible that I do not believe are the VOICE of the most high God. That is why we need the Holy Spirit.
What does a Hebrais Idiom meaning, to be greedy, have to do with it?...
People greedily hoarding for themselves (and whatever exclusive group they belong to) God's grace and love and the news that God is not keeping a record of wrongs, and attempting to withhold it from all others, perhaps. It's almost as if people are afraid there isn't enough love and forgiveness to go around.
I have no problem with the book of Revelation. I do have a problem with many interpretations of it. I love the scriptures. But the bible is not the WORD of God. Jesus Christ is the WORD of God and the Holy Spirit must lead me into all truth.
There are most definitely some things written in the bible that I do not believe are the VOICE of the most high God. That is why we need the Holy Spirit.
Same here. The only explanation of Revelation that I have ever heard that resonated with me was that it is about Christ being revealed/raised in each of us, overcoming the old man. It is not a book about outward battles, but inward spiritual ones.
What does a Hebrais Idiom meaning, to be greedy, have to do with it?...
When the teachings and doctrines of men we have made ourselves fat with have been mistaken as being Light, how great is our darkness ?.
*You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing....... ( I know all there is to know)
But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. Why ? Because your Light is darkness.
Only when God quickens us do we realize this state we have been living in.
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As Karl Barth once said, “I have read many books, but the bible reads me.” 
