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LORD, if you kept a record of our sins, who, O Lord, could ever survive?
Revelation 20:12:
Quote:
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and the books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
I don't have to point out to the reader the glaring inconsistency between these two verses. David claims that God does NOT keep records of our sins or else none of us would survive. Whatever acid-head wrote Revelation certainly didn't know his Psalms very well or he would never have written such a ridiculous contradiction to scripture solidly accepted as the Word of God.
I also don't think it's an accident that
Quote:
“Revelation” was always doubted in Eastern Christianity and not generally accepted into the New Testament until AD 508. Some ancient Christian branches still do not include it in their Bibles. So, we know discussion and criticism of “Revelation” is not new.
It is generally believed John of Patmos recorded his hallucination around AD 90-95. The Apostles John and Paul believed the authentic scriptures were completed during their life times. John (8:31,32; 17:20) and Paul (Eph. 3:20) wrote those opinions at least thirty years before John of Patmos wrote. Based on this alone, "Revelation" is post Apostolic literature. Obviously it was not written by the Apostle John because of its death curse at chapter 22:18,19. John wrote of God's never ending love and did not put such an abomination in his Gospel or his letters.
I've had a sneaking suspicion about Revelation ever since it started smelling like fish left out in 100 degree weather for a week. In addition to the mile-long rap sheet of inconsistencies with the rest of the Bible
Thrill...again...you claim something of God that He simply could not...nor would He ever do.....and that is contradict Himself. I'm beginning to think I'll stop replying to your posts at all after this, as it seems to me that you are hell bent on accusing God of something...anything! that is so far out in left field. You couldn't be more wrong than you are today...about this...I don't get it...and I don't like it......not one bit.
You are unable to see truth when you look at it...the unbelief that you hold in your heart is festering like a boil....and you make it worse by charging Him of such things as being a liar...a God of contradiction...untrustworthy...of no good character to any and all who read the words written on this board.
...ask yourself...what kind of seed is it that you are planting into young, learning hearts who seek TRUTH and do not yet know it...how many souls' blood will be required of you on the Day of the Lord God Almighty?...which book will you not be listed in?...what will be your judgement?...what is it you did that was against God while you were still alive here on earth, when you had a chance to work out your salvation with fear and trembling....but instead of choosing faith in Him and His precious word, chose instead to fill your time up with submitting charges against Him that you should never have?
It doesn't say who does the judging. (Ever read any NDE's? If you put any stock in those experiences at all, it is interesting to note that the judging is always done by the person themselves during a "life review".)
Secondly, the passage doesn't say that what is being judged are the wrongs of people, but rather their works. Perhaps the passage is meant to indicate that God is giving people insight/knowledge into the things that they have done that they consider to be "good works' and showing which of those works are really the works of God/love. That would fit with the Matt 25 passage that speaks of people feeding, clothing, visiting, etc. In that Matt. passage, there's no mention of people doing evil or "working iniquity" (nothing about keeping a record of sin), but rather of people having either embraced or ignored opportunities to love.
The Book of Life in Rev., as I see it, is Christ. The other books that are opened, are each of our lives (our life review). Works done in love are the things that are done in/through the life/spirit of Christ. So anything anyone has done in love as seen in their book/lifetime is what is recorded in that Book of Life/Christ.
So, nothing about God keeping a record of wrongs, but rather of God "keeping a record" of LOVE.
I don't have to point out to the reader the glaring inconsistency between these two verses. David claims that God does NOT keep records of our sins or else none of us would survive. Whatever acid-head wrote Revelation certainly didn't know his Psalms very well or he would never have written such a ridiculous contradiction to scripture solidly accepted as the Word of God.
I also don't think it's an accident that
I've had a sneaking suspicion about Revelation ever since it started smelling like fish left out in 100 degree weather for a week. In addition to the mile-long rap sheet of inconsistencies with the rest of the Bible
add Psalm 130:3 to the list. If it reads like a fake, is of dubious origin like a fake, and smells like a fake----
IT"S A FAKE!
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On judgement day, he is judging the sins of unbelievers who never accepted Christ. If you never accepted him and that he died in place of your sins, your not saved and will be under judgement. If there is no record of sin, we might as well do as we please since it wont be remembered.
I don't have to point out to the reader the glaring inconsistency between these two verses. David claims that God does NOT keep records of our sins or else none of us would survive. Whatever acid-head wrote Revelation certainly didn't know his Psalms very well or he would never have written such a ridiculous contradiction to scripture solidly accepted as the Word of God.
I also don't think it's an accident that
I've had a sneaking suspicion about Revelation ever since it started smelling like fish left out in 100 degree weather for a week. In addition to the mile-long rap sheet of inconsistencies with the rest of the Bible
add Psalm 130:3 to the list. If it reads like a fake, is of dubious origin like a fake, and smells like a fake----
IT"S A FAKE!
Those Scriptures do not contradict. The one is saying that God does not mark sins so that in an individuals lifetime he might receive the Atonement unto becoming a new creature in Christ. It is the goodness of the Lord that causes men to repent but if they refuse and continue in willful sin, they will die in their sin never having allowed Jesus to bear their sin.
The Atonement is the free ticket to get on board the train that travels to see the beauty of the Kingdom But many just refuse the ticket and get on board the train that travels the waste and barren lands. The other Scripture is showing that what will be marked in the books is that they never repented and the mark will be perminate but only at death.
-----------------
On judgement day, he is judging the sins of unbelievers who never accepted Christ. If you never accepted him and that he died in place of your sins, your not saved and will be under judgement. If there is no record of sin, we might as well do as we please since it wont be remembered.
[Nevermind - I think I misunderstood the point of your last sentence.]
I hear lots of rationalization and attempt to reconcile: "well, it's talking about sins, not iniquities" ; "perhaps this is what the writer meant".
I'm not trying to blaspheme God, nor is it my sole intention to point out that contradictions do occur in scripture, despite the fact that in my opinion this one is a glaring one. David says clearly, "I'm glad you don't keep a book (record) of our sins to judge us with, Lord, because we're all sinners down here and if you did who could survive (who would not be bound for hell)? Now enough people perished in the OT because of their iniquities that it would make it obvious that God indeed was marking their iniquities and wiping them out for their sins. But the question of whether David is referring to earth or eternity is basically left unanswered so it's up to interpretation. I choose to believe David was speaking from an eternal POV because, as I said, God destroyed enough people, Israelites and heathens, to render David's words moot.
Let me ask this: if Paul quotes Jeremiah
Quote:
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more. ”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
and then says everything in the Old Covenant was made obsolete by the New Covenant, does this mean that the stipulation that God would forgive Israel's wickedness and remember their sins no more lapsed under the NC and that God would would now start to do the opposite and remember their sins and not forgive their wickedness? And does this promise only apply to Israel and not to believers in general?
My point was not to draw attention to inaccuracies in the scriptures. It was to point out that because of such inaccuracies between well-founded scripture (Psalms) and questionable scriptures (Revelation) we have a real problem believing anything in Revelation. Proponents of Revelation will likely refuse to examine the evidence, close their eyes and go on believing it's divine revelation. But here are some questions one should ask themselves before blindly accepting Revelation as inspired:
1. Would Jesus kill little children because their parents sinned?
2. Would Jesus change salvation by faith back to salvation by works?
3. Would Jesus direct his disciples to rule with an "iron rod" instead of with love and forgiveness?
4. Would Jesus vomit you (and me) out of the Kingdom of God for being only a little warm and not red hot in our faith walk? And then not tells how he measures faith temperatures?
5. Would Jesus send you to hell for not believing every word of the Book of Revelation, and not tell you which is the unchangeable version of the hundreds of changed translations? And revoke his promise to never leave us and to be with us forever?
6. Would Jesus tell you he is coming soon and then not come?
7. Would Jesus give us the unbelievable images of chapter 9, and then tell us we have to accept them as the literal truth or be deprived of eternal life? Are we expected to believe chapter 28, verses 18 & 19 change all of Jesus' promises of the New Testament?
8. Would numerous Christian churches reject Revelation because of belief it is outright heresy?
I don't have to point out to the reader the glaring inconsistency between these two verses. David claims that God does NOT keep records of our sins or else none of us would survive. Whatever acid-head wrote Revelation certainly didn't know his Psalms very well or he would never have written such a ridiculous contradiction to scripture solidly accepted as the Word of God.
I also don't think it's an accident that
I've had a sneaking suspicion about Revelation ever since it started smelling like fish left out in 100 degree weather for a week. In addition to the mile-long rap sheet of inconsistencies with the rest of the Bible
add Psalm 130:3 to the list. If it reads like a fake, is of dubious origin like a fake, and smells like a fake----
IT"S A FAKE!
David was speaking as a man of Faith...One is justified by Faith in HaShem, just as Abraham was justified by his Faith in Hashem...No contradiction at all...Those judged by the Law are those who did not have Faith...
I hear lots of rationalization and attempt to reconcile: "well, it's talking about sins, not iniquities" ; "perhaps this is what the writer meant".
I'm not trying to blaspheme God, nor is it my sole intention to point out that contradictions do occur in scripture, despite the fact that in my opinion this one is a glaring one. David says clearly, "I'm glad you don't keep a book (record) of our sins to judge us with, Lord, because we're all sinners down here and if you did who could survive (who would not be bound for hell)? Now enough people perished in the OT because of their iniquities that it would make it obvious that God indeed was marking their iniquities and wiping them out for their sins. But the question of whether David is referring to earth or eternity is basically left unanswered so it's up to interpretation. I choose to believe David was speaking from an eternal POV because, as I said, God destroyed enough people, Israelites and heathens, to render David's words moot.
Let me ask this: if Paul quotes Jeremiah
and then says everything in the Old Covenant was made obsolete by the New Covenant, does this mean that the stipulation that God would forgive Israel's wickedness and remember their sins no more lapsed under the NC and that God would would now start to do the opposite and remember their sins and not forgive their wickedness? And does this promise only apply to Israel and not to believers in general?
My point was not to draw attention to inaccuracies in the scriptures. It was to point out that because of such inaccuracies between well-founded scripture (Psalms) and questionable scriptures (Revelation) we have a real problem believing anything in Revelation. Proponents of Revelation will likely refuse to examine the evidence, close their eyes and go on believing it's divine revelation. But here are some questions one should ask themselves before blindly accepting Revelation as inspired:
1. Would Jesus kill little children because their parents sinned?
2. Would Jesus change salvation by faith back to salvation by works?
3. Would Jesus direct his disciples to rule with an "iron rod" instead of with love and forgiveness?
4. Would Jesus vomit you (and me) out of the Kingdom of God for being only a little warm and not red hot in our faith walk? And then not tells how he measures faith temperatures?
5. Would Jesus send you to hell for not believing every word of the Book of Revelation, and not tell you which is the unchangeable version of the hundreds of changed translations? And revoke his promise to never leave us and to be with us forever?
6. Would Jesus tell you he is coming soon and then not come?
7. Would Jesus give us the unbelievable images of chapter 9, and then tell us we have to accept them as the literal truth or be deprived of eternal life? Are we expected to believe chapter 28, verses 18 & 19 change all of Jesus' promises of the New Testament?
8. Would numerous Christian churches reject Revelation because of belief it is outright heresy?
Revelation doesn't need your approval or your understanding to be divinely inspired. There are no contradictions in the word of God which includes the Book of Revelation.
Instead of taking the time to refute your eight points above, I will direct you to an indepth study of the Book of Revelation. IF you want answers then take the time and make the effort to learn what the Book of Revelation is about. >>> > DeanBible.org: 2004 - Revelation
Now that's 240 one hour classes in which the Book of Revelation is looked at in great detail.
Go into the link and click on... Revelation - 0001a <<< Click on this part for the audio.
A Run Through Revelation. May 09, 2004
Are you willing to spend at least 240 hours to understand the Book of Revelation?
And to understand the Book of Revelation you should first study the Book of Daniel.
I will however address your second point which is '2. Would Jesus change salvation by faith back to salvation by works?'
Eternal salvation is and always has been through faith alone in Christ alone. Everyone who dies never having believed on Jesus Christ for salvation is by default depending on his own works - his own righteousness to save him. Only unbelievers will appear at the great white throne judgment mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15.
Though the unbeliever dies in his sins as John 8:24 says, he will not be judged for his sins because Jesus Christ was already judged in his place for those sins. Since all sin was judged at the cross it will never be mentioned at the great white throne judgement of unbelievers. Since the unbeliever is depending on his own works - on his own righteousness for salvation he will be judged and condemned on the basis of his works. The only reason the unbeliever is at the great white throne is because he has not believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. He therefore never received the imputation of God's own perfect righteousness and has only his own righteousness to depend on. So at the great white throne the unbeliever's works will be added up, and no matter how many good works he has it will be shown that it is not enough to save him.
Because the unbeliever never came to Christ for salvation he is condemned on the basis of his own righteousness - his deeds.
At almost the very end of Revelation, the invitation is extended to everyone to come and take the water of life freely (Rev. 22:17). The invitation is extened to believe on Jesus Christ for eternal life.
Again, if you truly want to understand the Book of Revelation you have the opportunity to avail yourself of some very good teaching on it. But if this is just another one of your threads which attempts to discredit the word of God, then don't bother.
David was speaking as a man of Faith...One is justified by Faith in HaShem, just as Abraham was justified by his Faith in Hashem...No contradiction at all...Those judged by the Law are those who did not have Faith...
READ THIS REPLY ^^^ BY RICHARD THRILL, and read it good...over and over again until it finally sinks in....EVERYWHERE in the Bible were it speaks to ANYTHING pertaining to "forgiving >>>THEIR<<< wickedness, and remembering >>>THEIR<<< sins no more" is speaking to ONLY THOSE WHO ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH BY OBEYING THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD - NON OTHER ! Just like Abraham....his faith was accounted unto him as righteousness...WHY ?...BECAUSE HE OBEYED GOD ! ! ! ...AND UNTIL YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTINUALLY KICKS AGAINST THE PRICKS FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE...AND IT FINALLY SINKS IN , AND YOU FINALLY OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD >>>AND THIS INCLUDES KEEPING THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH AS HOLY UNTO GOD - THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT<<< YOU WILL NOT ENTER INTO HEAVEN, PERIOD.
...THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY ! ! ! IT IS WRITTEN ! ! !
Until you understand this truth, you will never understand His truth...you will be forever seeking without finding....calling God whatever names you will call Him other than Righteous and Just.
I pray for you thrillobyte. You upset me....I'm sorry.
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