Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They say that it's taught in the Bible. As do those who believe in Annihilation.
I agree with you Jerwade. I once believed in ET because I knew that one sin was enough to be condemned, and without the covering of the blood of Jesus over that one sin, common Christian sense would tell you that you would be condemned to ET forever. But my mistake was first, that Christian common sense is not the way God judges, and two, God judges everything according to His own Law. If we are out of His grace, we fall under His Law. But once I understood that sin was a debt, and the Law has penalties for every sin or crime, and everything has a payoff timewise. So there can be no eternal consequences for anything. God loves every single human being, and they all have to come to redemption through Jesus. It's just that it takes longer for some people to get it, but there is also no law that states that it can't be done after natural death. I will explain for all...
Many people get hung up on the verse that says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:", from Hebrews 9:27, and the judgment of this verse is often taken to mean ET. But considering the Law that God judges by, we have to realize that this judgment will be measured and not infinite. This verse is qualified in relation to the next verse, "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation " ,
which explains that for those that look for Jesus' coming, (in other words, they are living "in Him" and expect Him someday), then there is a special reward for those, and that reward is that Jesus will fulfill for them the law of the second goat, and Jesus will remove their sin, not just cover it, which will allow the escaping from natural death, the being made whole and resurrected with a new eternal body, and therefore the escape from the second death. The second death comes to all of those that did not attain to the First Resurrection, and belief in Jesus will come to all those that did not have it, because Jesus will be right there as proof of His existence. The second death is the loss that Paul, (who knew the Law well), spoke of in 1 Cor. 3:15, "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." It will be their worthless works of vanity and sin that will be burned up for eternity, and it is these things that are destroyed in the Lake of Fire. The person himself WILL be thrown into the fire, but as in the description of fire purifying metal, the scum will be burned off and removed, and the purified person will then be saved, "yet so as by fire". The length of time that this will take is not specifically mentioned, but the fire is the eternal flame that comes from the Throne of God (Dan 7:9), and it is meant for purifying in the same way that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer and it takes time to complete the process of sanctification. Some believe that this will only take an instant, some believe that it can take many years, even thousands of years, to complete. I'll leave that up to God.
Both are contrary to the Spirit of truth and life.
And neither are supported by the Scriptures.
In the final analysis:
"ALL WILL BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH."
A higher-level of comprehension.
Romans 5 v 19 says by the obedience of one [ Jesus ] shall MANY be made righteous.
Matthew 20 v 28 also mentions that Jesus' ransom covers MANY, and does Not say all.
Jesus blood covers ' all ' [ 1st John 1 v 7 ] but because ' all ' will Not accept Jesus' NEW commandment [ John 13 vs 34, 35 ] they will be everlasting destroyed [ 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 ] because ' all who are classed as wicked ' will be destroyed forever [ annihilated ] - Psalm 92 v 7
God will have Jesus rid the earth of any who would be ruin to earth.- Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 11 v 18 B; 19 vs 11,15
However, all who prove righteous [ Matthew 25 v 37 ] will be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
Both are contrary to the Spirit of truth and life.
And neither are supported by the Scriptures.
In the final analysis:
"ALL WILL BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH."
A higher-level of comprehension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Romans 5 v 19 says by the obedience of one [ Jesus ] shall MANY be made righteous.
Matthew 20 v 28 also mentions that Jesus' ransom covers MANY, and does Not say all.
Jesus blood covers ' all ' [ 1st John 1 v 7 ] but because ' all ' will Not accept Jesus' NEW commandment [ John 13 vs 34, 35 ] they will be everlasting destroyed [ 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 ] because ' all who are classed as wicked ' will be destroyed forever [ annihilated ] - Psalm 92 v 7
God will have Jesus rid the earth of any who would be ruin to earth.- Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 11 v 18 B; 19 vs 11,15
However, all who prove righteous [ Matthew 25 v 37 ] will be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
Why do you quote Scriptures, yet fail to comprehend them?
Romans 5 v 19 says by the obedience of one [ Jesus ] shall MANY be made righteous.
Matthew 20 v 28 also mentions that Jesus' ransom covers MANY, and does Not say all.
Jesus blood covers ' all ' [ 1st John 1 v 7 ] but because ' all ' will Not accept Jesus' NEW commandment [ John 13 vs 34, 35 ] they will be everlasting destroyed [ 2nd Thess. 1 v 9 ] because ' all who are classed as wicked ' will be destroyed forever [ annihilated ] - Psalm 92 v 7
God will have Jesus rid the earth of any who would be ruin to earth.- Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 11 v 18 B; 19 vs 11,15
However, all who prove righteous [ Matthew 25 v 37 ] will be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
John 17:2,
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
If the Father has given Jesus the power over ALL flesh, and HE will be giving eternal life to as many as the Father gave Him, which is ALL, then:
John 16:37, Allthat the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 3:35, The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. ("things" is not in the original, it was added.)
1 Timothy 2:4, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Religion wants people under subjection. Religion wants people punished for not obeying said religion. Religion wants people to be in fear, because religion knows that it is not true, and without the fear of people, it has no power.
God is love. God is all powerful. God can save at any time. Believing in Jesus is not only possible after death, at the judgment ALL will be believers. It says, "All men die, then the judgment." The problem is that most believers don't realize that they have been shammed by religion, and religion does NOT know the meaning of judgment. God judges by His own law. Jesus said that we could lose our souls. That is a fearful thing, but it DOESN'T mean our whole beings. Just because a person doesn't come to Jesus during his life on earth, the majority of Christians are willing to condemn him in a manner God would never imagine, and to say that the Father could condemn someone to this and couldn't have figured out the way to save everyone from the beginning, makes God out to be weaker than sin! And it makes the believers in this doctrine to be callous, indifferent, and impatient people.
The Christian churches that espouse this doctrine of eternal punishment are akin to the Pharisees that Jesus said tie heavy burdens on men's shoulders, yet won't lift a finger to help. These burdens are man made doctrines. In the first 500 years of the Church age, there was NO belief in Eternal Torment. This was first espoused by Tertullian, and grew as a poison until it is accepted now by most.
And yes, I'm STILL WAITING for ANYONE that can show me the provision of eternal torment as a conviction that can be put forth from God's Law!
John 17:2, As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
If the Father has given Jesus the power over ALL flesh, and HE will be giving eternal life to as many as the Father gave Him, which is ALL, then:
John 16:37, Allthat the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 3:35, The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. ("things" is not in the original, it was added.)
1 Timothy 2:4, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Religion wants people under subjection. Religion wants people punished for not obeying said religion. Religion wants people to be in fear, because religion knows that it is not true, and without the fear of people, it has no power.
God is love. God is all powerful. God can save at any time. Believing in Jesus is not only possible after death, at the judgment ALL will be believers. It says, "All men die, then the judgment." The problem is that most believers don't realize that they have been shammed by religion, and religion does NOT know the meaning of judgment. God judges by His own law. Jesus said that we could lose our souls. That is a fearful thing, but it DOESN'T mean our whole beings. Just because a person doesn't come to Jesus during his life on earth, the majority of Christians are willing to condemn him in a manner God would never imagine, and to say that the Father could condemn someone to this and couldn't have figured out the way to save everyone from the beginning, makes God out to be weaker than sin! And it makes the believers in this doctrine to be callous, indifferent, and impatient people.
The Christian churches that espouse this doctrine of eternal punishment are akin to the Pharisees that Jesus said tie heavy burdens on men's shoulders, yet won't lift a finger to help. These burdens are man made doctrines. In the first 500 years of the Church age, there was NO belief in Eternal Torment. This was first espoused by Tertullian, and grew as a poison until it is accepted now by most.
And yes, I'm STILL WAITING for ANYONE that can show me the provision of eternal torment as a conviction that can be put forth from God's Law!
Amen! There is no eternal torment and we are all saved by Christ from eternal separation from God. Our sanctification is assured under His love for us all IF we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't as Jesus instructed. What you believe is irrelevant to this sanctification. We will reap what we sow for anything not covered by our sanctification.
Since when does judgment from God imply that the person being judged cannot repent and receive mercy: God's mercy endures forever.
If God gives grace and mercy He leads a person to repentance in this life, if a person refuses to listen, God will judge him according to His word, the scriptures (bible). If you do not believe this, I am sure, you will experience it. I would not take any risk, I obey God, walking in the Spirit, and when I see it was my flesh, I repent daily. If a person has not Christ, he has no life in him (1.Jn 5:11+12). With other words, he is spiritual dead and there are Christians, that have the name but are dead (Rev 3:1), because of their works. They think they have everlasting life, but the Lord does not know them because of their wickedness.
Dear Zur,
Where do you read in the Bible that one who does not repent is lost for eternity? Could you please post a verse or two then we can deal with that.
I'm not rebelling. God specifically tells us to teach that "God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all" (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11). If I did otherwise I would be prideful.
You ask: "Why do you think the Bible is wrong and you see it right?"
What part of the bible are you asking about? Are you asking about my thoughts on destruction as found in the bible?
Jesus himself said he came to seek and "to save the ***lost*** sheep of the House of Israel." The whole person was lost. Again, "lost" and "destroyed" use the same Greek word. Being lost or destroyed was a prerequisite to being saved by Christ.
Do you agree, that in Adam we are lost? All shall die (1. Cor 15:22). In Christ we get eternal life as a gift, we have to receive (Rom 5:17) by faith in Christ, be made alive is a work of creation. The condition is faith in Christ, to be born again. Without it we are still in Adam and spiritual dead. After we receive salvation, we have to remain in Christ, because we can die spiritual in sin, dead means separation from God. A dead Christian is as much separated as an unbeliever, his faith is dead, of no effect. Grace is when forgiveness is granted from the Father in Heaven, who forgives sin, as we forgive our transgressors. The condition is confession and repentance, the Father will cleans us from all unrighteousness. The verse for eternal damnation is found in Dan 12:2. In this light and what is said before 1. Tim 2:4-6 and 4:10+11 has to be interpreted, that God wants, His desire is to save all people and made it possible through sending Jesus Christ His Son dying for our sins. But God is a righteous God, He is just, and made the conditions. He is the one that forgives sin and makes the decision who enters the kingdom of Heaven and the bible says clearly who will not enter and who will. Yes, you have give proof that the lake of fire is not for destruction of the person, but for purification. BTW will the devil also be purified?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
