The greatest deceit…you must choose to believe in Christ (sinners, Holy Spirit)
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Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 does not say:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is "a volitional response" .
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Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Decision theology aka "volitional response" is false because it claims that despite being dead spiritually, one can make themself alive
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1 Corinthians 1:28-30 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 the truth states: " It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,"
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 does not say: " It is because of "a volitional response" that you are in Christ Jesus,"
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 does not say:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is "a volitional response" .
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Decision theology aka "volitional response" is false because it claims that despite being dead spiritually, one can make themself alive
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 the truth states: " It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,"
1 Corinthians 1:28-30 does not say: " It is because of "a volitional response" that you are in Christ Jesus,"
What about "God is no respecter of persons" do you not understand, Twin? Since Christ died and was reborn as Spirit . . . we ALL have Christ within our consciousness as His Holy Spirit the Comforter . . . not just some of us based on God's respecting differences among us for ANY reasons. Christ abides with us and we in Him. He is our "wisdom from God" but we all do not listen to Christ within and instead follow our animal natures. That is when we act wickedly.
Faith is a gift from God. See 1 Corinthians 12
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit,
God gives each of us different gifts through his spirit...faith is one of those gifts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
I have already explained why in post #4.Ephesians 2:8 is not referring to faith as the gift from God, but that salvation is a gift from God. That gift is taken possession of through a faith response to the gospel message.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For by grace you have been saved through faith....Whose faith?
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.
You are saved through the faith of Christ....He is faithful.
2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Notice it says even if we DON'T believe, he still remains faithful to us, because that is who he is; he is faith and he cannot deny who he is; he cannot be unfaithful.
Look at this verse:
James 2:14-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Read this verse in terms of Christ. He is the one with faith and his faith to us is shown by his works in us. For if we are naked(in sin) and in need of the covering of his blood he gives it to us. If we are destitute of daily food which is his body..the bread of life, he gives it to us. He will not tell us to depart in peace, be warmed and filled without warming us and filling us himself. He knows what we need for our salvation and he will equip us with everything...belief and all. We can see his faith to us by the works he does in us. This is why we cannot boast or take credit for the good things we do that pleases God. It is God working in us giving us the desire and the will to do what pleases him. He is faithful.
So according to Ephesians 2:8
By God's grace we are saved through the faith/faithfulness of Christ. It has nothing to do with us or our perceived choices. It is completely a gift of God, not based on anything we did but what he did in us which us why we cannot boast.
So then you're a Universalist. Most Universalists will never escape from that error. All men will not be saved. The Bible doesn't say anything about all men being saved. It requires twisting the meaning of Scripture to come to the conclusion that it does.
You claim that all men will not be saved. God says differently!
First of all God said we should know his will and not be ignorant. Why is that? Could it be because he does things according to his will? So if you know his will then you will know what he will do and your deceitful heart could not fool you.
Ephesians 5:17
Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
God first tells us to understand what his will is and here is why he tells us this:
Daniel 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
God tells us to understand what his will is for he does according to his will. It's that simple!
So what is God's will? 1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
God's will is to have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He does according to his will. So I don't know how you can claim that the Bible says nothing about God saving all men.
What is not God's will?
Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALLshould come to repentance.
This may be your will that some should perish but it is not God's will. His will is that all should be saved and he will do this because he does according to his will. His ministry is a ministry of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Your faith isn't reconciling the world unto God himself....it is only reconciling some. This is not scriptural.
How about this verse:
Philippians 2:10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And thatevery tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Notice it says every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So if every tongue shall confess and confession is made unto salvation then everyone will see the salvation of God. Isn't that Good News!!! You would be unmerciful if you would rather it be that some will be eternally tortured. Christ himself said to learn mercy.
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
And why will all flesh see the salvation of God? Because all flesh was given to Christ that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave him...which was all flesh and he will not lose one that God has given him...which is all flesh.
John 17:1-2
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Now do as Christ said and learn mercy!!!!
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
He is calling all sinners to repentance because God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALLshould come to repentance.
God Bless and Guide you, but He will not force you!
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
God says He will cause us but you say He will not force us......."He will cause us to" sounds like force to me, for we surely weren't willing prior to him causing us.
Faith is a gift from God. See 1 Corinthians 12
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit,
God gives each of us different gifts through his spirit...faith is one of those gifts.
Once again, I have already addressed 1 Cor. 12 in post #4. It is not talking about saving faith. It is talking about a temporary spiritual gift which was given to some men, and not to others. It has nothing at all to do with salvific faith.
Quote:
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For by grace you have been saved through faith....Whose faith?
I have also already addressed this. But to expand on it, Eph. 2:8 For by grace (Feminine Gender) you have been saved (Masculine Gender) through faith (Feminine Gender); and that (Neuter Gender; Singular Number) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Since the word 'that' is Neuter and Singular which means it can only refer to one thing, and not to more than one thing, and 'grace' and 'faith' are both Feminine, the word 'that' isn't referring to either one of them. That means that you have understand what the overall subject is of which Paul is speaking. With that in mind, read the following excerpt:
Excerpt:
We need to carefully think through Ephesians 2:8-9 in order to correctly identify the antecedent. We must ask, "What is Paul talking about in Ephesians 2:8-9? What is his main point?" It is obvious that Paul is talking about HOW A PERSON IS SAVED. The main idea of the sentence is found in the verb "ARE YE SAVED" [or "YE ARE SAVED"]. How is a person saved? Ephesians 2:8-9 answers this key question. Salvation is by grace. Salvation is through faith. Salvation is not of yourselves. Salvation is the GIFT OF GOD. Salvation is not of works. Paul is not giving a dissertation on faith, but he is giving a brief dissertation on salvation. SALVATION is his main subject. Faith is mentioned because you cannot answer the question "HOW IS A PERSON SAVED?" without mentioning faith. A person is saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). God's gracious gift of salvation must be personally received, and it is received by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But the main thing that Paul is talking about in these two verses is salvation, not faith. WHAT IS THE
Quote:
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.
You are saved through the faith of Christ....He is faithful.
No, it is not the faith OF Christ. It is faith IN Christ. The phrase is an objective Genitive. Not a subjective Genitive. Since it is an objective Genitive, it is faith IN Christ. The immediate context verifies that by the fact that the passage then goes on to say 'even we have believed in Christ, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law. We are justified as a result of our faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law. Our faith as opposed to our works. We have to do the believing in Christ in order to be justified. Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? ''Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.'' Abraham believed. Abraham had faith in God and it was credited to him as righteousness with the result that Abraham was justified by his faith in God.
Quote:
2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Notice it says even if we DON'T believe, he still remains faithful to us, because that is who he is; he is faith and he cannot deny who he is; he cannot be unfaithful.
Jesus is certainly faithful because of Who and What He is. This does not negate the fact that we have to exercise non-meritorious faith in Christ in order to be saved. 2 Timothy 2:13 is talking about believers who prove to be unfaithful but who cannot lose their salvation because of the faithfulness of Christ. But to become saved in the first place they had to exercise non-meritorius faith in Christ.
2 Timothy 2:13 is an eternal security verse. Not a salvation verse.
Quote:
Look at this verse:
James 2:14-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James here is talking about the spiritual life of the believer after salvation. This is not a salvific passage.
Quote:
Read this verse in terms of Christ. He is the one with faith and his faith to us is shown by his works in us. For if we are naked(in sin) and in need of the covering of his blood he gives it to us. If we are destitute of daily food which is his body..the bread of life, he gives it to us. He will not tell us to depart in peace, be warmed and filled without warming us and filling us himself. He knows what we need for our salvation and he will equip us with everything...belief and all. We can see his faith to us by the works he does in us. This is why we cannot boast or take credit for the good things we do that pleases God. It is God working in us giving us the desire and the will to do what pleases him. He is faithful.
Jesus Christ was faithful to carry out the Father's plan for the incarnation by going to the cross and dying for the sins of the world so that those who have faith in Him have eternal life. Jesus Christ is faithful to keep the believer saved. But to obtain eternal life in the first place, one must place their faith in Christ.
Quote:
So according to Ephesians 2:8
By God's grace we are saved through the faith/faithfulness of Christ. It has nothing to do with us or our perceived choices. It is completely a gift of God, not based on anything we did but what he did in us which us why we cannot boast.
No. We are saved by placing our faith, our trust, our confidence in the finished work of Christ on the cross. There are many, many verses in the New Testament which state that we must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Faith and belief are synonymous terms. 'Believe' is translated from the Greek pisteuó, while 'faith' is translated from the Greek pistis.
Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31] They said, "Believe (non-meritorious faith) in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
You don't seem to be interested in what I've been saying in posts #4 and #32, and have ignored what I've said as shown by the fact that you keep bringing up things I've already addressed. So, since in those two posts and in this one, I have made the issue clear that faith is not from God, but is a response to what God has revealed about Himself, I don't think there is any point in devoting any more time to this.
You claim that all men will not be saved. God says differently!
First of all God said we should know his will and not be ignorant. Why is that? Could it be because he does things according to his will? So if you know his will then you will know what he will do and your deceitful heart could not fool you.
Ephesians 5:17
Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
God first tells us to understand what his will is and here is why he tells us this:
Daniel 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
God tells us to understand what his will is for he does according to his will. It's that simple!
So what is God's will? 1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
God's will is to have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He does according to his will. So I don't know how you can claim that the Bible says nothing about God saving all men.
What is not God's will?
Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALLshould come to repentance.
This may be your will that some should perish but it is not God's will. His will is that all should be saved and he will do this because he does according to his will. His ministry is a ministry of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Your faith isn't reconciling the world unto God himself....it is only reconciling some. This is not scriptural.
How about this verse:
Philippians 2:10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And thatevery tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Notice it says every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So if every tongue shall confess and confession is made unto salvation then everyone will see the salvation of God. Isn't that Good News!!! You would be unmerciful if you would rather it be that some will be eternally tortured. Christ himself said to learn mercy.
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
And why will all flesh see the salvation of God? Because all flesh was given to Christ that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave him...which was all flesh and he will not lose one that God has given him...which is all flesh.
John 17:1-2
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Now do as Christ said and learn mercy!!!!
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
He is calling all sinners to repentance because God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALLshould come to repentance.
No, God does not say different. Universalism depends on a misunderstanding and twisting of the Scriptures in order to promote that false teaching. None of those passages when properly understood imply that all men will be saved. You are taking them out of their context and taking them to mean something they do not mean.
This has all been hashed and rehashed on thread after thread on this forum and I am not going to take the time to explain those verses to you.
No. that is not what the word says...the heart is deceitful and wicked period. This is why God has to cut it out and give us a new heart. With the new heart God said you will obey his statues and be sure to do them. You will not follow after your old nature with the new heart.
You are right, it is the spiritual man that brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart....but we are not yet spiritual until we first die.
1 Corinthians 15:36
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47-48
The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. Have you already become as Christ; perfect? If not then you are not yet Spiritual and if you were spiritual then you would never die for you would be incorruptible. The reason you are still dying is because you are still of the flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Notice it says we have borne the image of the man of dust and we shall bear the image of the heavenly. Have is the present/shall is the future. From dust we came and to dust shall we return but when we have been raised from the dust we shall be spiritual.
So to trust The Lord is not spiritual , so to learn of him is not spiritual, to love your neighbor is not spiritual to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God is not spiritual ?
These are all attributes of the a beastly desperately wicked heart ?. How can you be anything other than you believe yourself to be ?.
God cut out any out. You are totally misunderstand what it is saying by giving us a new heart. When Salvation comes to your house something amazing happens, it's like you have a new heart, you think and desire differently. If salvation has not come to your house, you remain the same miserable wicked person you believe you are still under your own condemation.
Actually you can. When you recognize your state, you see the very purpose of why Christ had to die. Your peace comes from knowing that he will redeem you from that desperately wicked state. You begin to realize that even though you sin today, one day you will sin no more. I find great peace in that!
If you see yourself how you say you do, you cannot possibly have peace in this life. For how you see yourself is how you believe God sees you.
Worm theology is not of God.
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