Funeral Service Held for Baby Brutalized in Violent 14-Week Abortion

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by janelle144

When, in your view, would it be ok for the parents to decide on abortion?

When they are pregnant and for reasons of their own really do not want to be. Such reasons are too varied to list for you here. They can be anything from medical reasons.... to simply not being ready at this point in life to rear a child.

In my own home country of Ireland recently a horrific story broke out and swept the nation with 1000s of people hitting the street to protest it. A Women, pregnant, went into a hospital with complications. The doctors decided the baby was going to die no matter what.

They then decided not to abort however. When the woman, herself of indian origin, asked for the abortion she was told "No. This is a catholic country."

Both mother and Baby then died.

That is just one example. There are 1000s more. Life is not a black and white handful of "IF...THEN" statements. The number of reasons and motivations one might have for seeking an abortion are numerous. I could spend the remainder of my time on this forum listing them and still not cover them all.

Originally Posted by janelle144

I think the ones who go back again and again for an abortion are for them. Otherwise, they would not use it as contraception.

I have seen no figures to suggest that such people are anything but in the vast minority. Such medical procedures are vastly uncomfortable and invasive and the overwhelming majority of women would much prefer never to engage in it. Certainly not frivolously like you attempt to paint it. It would appear your anti abortion agendas is leading you down a road of being massively disingenuous to the female sex.

[janelle144]

The story you state was vastly exaggerated and being used to make abortion legal in Ireland. You need to research the other side beside the pro-aborts'.

When you are for abortions brecause the couple wants it then you are saying and agreeing with those who say----"abortion at anytime for any reason." I don't know why you can't see that.

I posted an article about an abortion clinic where a reporter went to view an abortion. When he looked at the little hands and feet on the table he was shaken to his core. The nurse that was helping saw his distress and said----"yes, it can be hard to look at and especially hard when they (the women) come back again and again.

We don't see these figures since the main stream media support abortion. They aren't likely to write about the bad side of it. Many now are complaining to the media on this issue. How they stay silent and cover it up.

[Heartsong]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Many medical procedures are gory. That said, I'm not a fan of late term abortions but when we live in a country that makes contraception difficult to obtain, and makes attempts at the state level to out law "the morning after pill", expect more abortions - including late term abortions.

What I don't understand is why so few Christ followers care at all about what happens to live, already born animals in Factory Farming, which is truly diabolical.

Hi Sheena, long time no see. Isn't it weird how certain portions of the believers not only want to outlaw abortion but also want to outlaw contraception. They want to FORCE women to conceive! It's creepy! It is invasive. And it will never fly. Many people on the extreme right side of this issue are either a) abnormally obsessed with this one issue (for reasons unknown) or b) using the issue for political fodder

Bottom line - it is about the desire to control women at its core. Look at history and how much women have been controlled and abused. Women in many countries are treated like cattle and like breeders. It is disgusting to me.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by janelle144

The story you state was vastly exaggerated and being used to make abortion legal in Ireland. You need to research the other side beside the pro-aborts'.

Which part of what I described was inaccurate or exaggerated exactly? Please quote me directly, tell me what the truth of the part quoted actually is, and cite your sources. Or do you just accuse people of exaggeration out of thin air when you have no other way of disagreeing with them?

And it is you not I that needs to do more research because Abortion is already legal in Ireland under given conditions, as with most countries where it is legal. So what you said above is not just baseless but also patently false. What the majority of people talking on the issue want is a clarification and cementing of the current state of those laws and conditions because clearly a situation where a mother and child could die OR just a child could die is a no brainer. Yet the No Brained solution was chosen and both died unnecessarily.

However this is a tangent sparked by my example. If you want to discuss the single example then so be it but my point remains that there are a multitude of reasons why someone would seek an abortion and I am not about to sit here and list 1000s of potential examples. You asked me when someone might want or need an abortion and my answer is clear: There are too numerous answers to list.

Originally Posted by janelle144

When you are for abortions brecause the couple wants it then you are saying and agreeing with those who say----"abortion at anytime for any reason." I don't know why you can't see that.

Because if I meant that I would say that. Keep your words out of my mouth thank you, I clearly have more than enough of my own. By all means tell me what your position is. Do not attempt to tell me what my own is.

Certainly "Anytime" for example is an outright misrepresentation given I am very strongly in favor of cut off points in abortion which instantly preclude "anytime".

However generally yes, I do not care about the reasons. I either think abortion is moral, or immoral. If moral then what care I for the REASONS people have them? Take eating fast food for example. I have no moral issues with that. Yet if someone told me they were purposefully eating tons of it in order to get so fat that they can stop working and live on disability allowance... then while I think that persons personal motivations to be immoral and deceptive.... that does not indict the eating of fast food.

Similarly while SOME people might have immoral motivations for seeking an abortion (a group of people overwhelmingly and vastly in the minority I expect) that does not indict the act of abortion itself. You are attempting to make X guilty by proxy of the motivations of Y.

The fact is however I am very much for every initiative we can engage in to ensure people never get into a position where they want one. Improvements of sex education, quality of and access to contraception, and much more.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Heartsong

Let me guess --- you're a male and would never be faced with the reality of making such a choice.?

Originally Posted by Heartsong

So well said. I've never met anyone who was "PRO-Abortion".

I doubt that anyone likes abortion anymore than they like the dentist. The question is making a choice where neither are very pleasant.

I agree that as a male I don't have to make the choice - on a personal basis at any rate, which is why I sympathize with Mystic's argument that it is a matter for women to decide, rather than society. It should be borne in mind that pro -abortion gives a choice - anti abortion removes the choice.

Of course the anti squad have a point. Some laws cannot be left to the individual but DO have to be decided by society. And I am conscious of the argument that the baby has no choice in the matter.

There does come a point where we have to look to prevention rather than 'cure' as it were. Effective prevention could make this all much less of a problem. It does not help that certain lobbies don't want prevention either and insist that the only answer is one that doesn't actually work.