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Oh how nice .... the termination of a human is a "medical procedure"
Yes. It is. That is why it is performed by - wait for it - medical practitioners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
many abortion advocates who run in the same circles as Melissa Harris-Perry are now publicly arguing that it is okay for parents to kill their children up to age three.
Then take it up with them. As I am not advocating any such thing what has this got to do with me?
The user above was expressing concern that a 14 week old fetus might have felt pain or discomfort. I was merely pointing out that there is quite literally no reason whatsoever to think so. Forgive me for trying to kindly allay another persons baseless concerns in order to make them feel better. I did not realise this to be a crime.
This is true, though it is a bit questionable whether they can feel anything at all at 14 weeks. There isn't a real consensus yet as far as I've read.
I am afraid that can only be for a want of reading. The International Association for the Study of Pain defines pain quite clearly and notes that it is always subjective. The vast medical consensus is that there is no potential for subjective experience at that point in development. Dr. Maureen Condic (an associate professor of neurobiology and adjunct professor of pediatrics at the University of Utah School of Medicine) even testified to this in a court of law saying “long-range connections within the cortex that some believe to be required for consciousness do not arise until much later, around 22-24 weeks.”
K.J.S. Anand, a researcher of newborns, and P.R. Hickey, published in NEJM say "intermittent electroencephalographic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks.
Without “bilaterally synchronous electroencephalographic activity “intelligence” “consciousness” “self” is just not possible. The thing that makes us alive…. That makes us human…. Doesn't happen until 26/27 weeks.
The reason some people believe (or in some cases pretend to believe, so that you will too, even when they themselves do not.) that the fetus feels pain at earlier stages, even as low as 8 weeks, is that AUTONOMIC processes for pain detection and response are in place at those stages. Their existence and operation however in no way supports the notion that the fetus FEELS or is AWARE of any pain whatsoever. Think of tapping a coma patients knee with a small hammer. The knee jumps in response. The patient however is in no way aware of the event.
The abortion debate is an important but HIGHLY emotive one. On both sides. It helps to divest oneself of entirely false claims such as "The Fetus feels pain at 8-14 weeks" in order to engage in it.
Many treat a fetus, much like they would an insect in their path.
If, it's inconvenient; take precautions or keep your garments on.
How do you really know what anyone actually thinks, believes, and feels going into a decision about choosing an abortion? You make assumptions because abortion offends you. But have you ever actually known of a real person who shared with you: "I'm pregnant - I think I'll squash this fetus like a bug"? I seriously doubt it.
As a true Goldwater-Republican Paleo-Conservative who staunchly opposes Neo-cons and generally supports Liberal stances including Gay rights I have always been rather cold towards the Abortion issue.
Let me guess --- you're a male and would never be faced with the reality of making such a choice.?
This is the lunatic fringe of society gnashing their teeth because they cannot control everything. I think quiet prayer and time alone with God might do these people some good.
That is the reason so many are fighting against abortion. Prayer and time alone with God.
At 14 weeks there is literally no reason whatsoever to think they do. At all. You need to get much closer to the 6 months mark before you can even begin to suspect they felt a thing.
I am pro heart surgery when people need it. I would not want children seeing it performed however. It is not a pretty sight.
What a medical procedure looks like has _nothing_ to do with the morality of that procedure.
But they do show it on the discovery channel---why not abortion?
But they do show it on the discovery channel---why not abortion?
Probably because it is a contentious issue and media outlets just as D.C do not want to do anything that risks view loss. Ratings are the goal of any channel. Not morality, progress, social issues.... they just want ratings.
And because people make an issue of abortion.... often for false or vacuous reasons such as pretending the fetus feels things when it does not..... an issue like abortion risks viewership figures.
But occasionally TV channels do push the boat out and televise things that are controversial. Cast your mind back to the televising of.... and only in the last month it was repeated in my home country of Ireland..... a live on air autopsy. Imaging trying to televise that in the 40s 50s or 60s.
Another answer to your question jumps to mind though. A lot of anti abortion activists try to paint it that the pro choice people are "pro abortion". That they want more of them and want people to have them. That is not so. A good analogy is again Heart Bypass surgery. We of course want people to have such surgery when they need it. But we ALSO want to do everything we can to make sure no one needs them. Improving diets. Improving life style. Improving health care and early diagnosis of medical issues. Improving education. Reducing stress and much much more. We do everything we can to make sure people NEVER need such surgery but WHEN they do we want to make sure it is available to them quickly and easily.
The same is true of pro choice activists. They want women to have open and easy access to abortion when they need it. They.... we.... however ALSO want to do what we can to make sure they never need it. Improved sex education. Improved quality of, and access to, contraception. Reduction of rape and sexual abuse. Improved access to support for single mothers or struggling couples who become pregnant. And much much more.
Divest yourself of the anti choice propaganda notion that pro choice people love abortion and want more of it. We do not. We would like there to be no abortions. At all. For various reasons. But we want the choice to be there for people who need it, when they need it.
Divest yourself of the anti choice propaganda notion that pro choice people love abortion and want more of it. We do not. We would like there to be no abortions. At all. For various reasons. But we want the choice to be there for people who need it, when they need it.
But they do show it on the discovery channel---why not abortion?
I could not even pretend to understand the methods by which Television channels choose their programming. Certainly some shows I have watched in the past were more horrific in their awfulness than any televised medical procedure. And I too watched the above mentioned autopsy with great interest.
A guess would be that the reason is that it involves sexual organs. And people generally have an issue with even catching the side of a buttock or breast on television today - let alone full on genital images.
Further hearth bypass is actually genuinely interesting - how they do it - how it works - but abortion not so much. It is more a mechanical and straight forward process - not much to make interesting Television out of.
But television schedules are not the point I was making. The point I was making is that being pleasent to look at is not what makes a medical procedure moral or immoral - so hanging up pictures of a dead fetus hardly makes a useful argument on the topic. Rather it just plays to people disgust at the sight of biological internals in an attempt to bypass discussion on the topic.
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This is the lunatic fringe of society gnashing their teeth because they cannot control everything. I think quiet prayer and time alone with God might do these people some good.
