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When posted in a discussion the universalists just close their fingers (as in typing a response) and hoped no one noticed. So I have decided to make these two biblical cites the subject of this thread. I copied my post in another thread which was carefully ignored by universalists.
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Seems some parts of the NT conflict with universalism. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy is part of God's nature. Not so happy, happy. Please note:
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. (so says John, the apostle)
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (so says Jesus)
Matt 10:28 is talking about being fearless in the world, that in Christ we have no fear under a loving God who is also the one who "set things up" and could tear them down. Notice please that it does not say, "who destroys body and soul in hell."
John 3:36 has been addressed more than once, and the point is that "wrath" does not appear to be an emotional state we think of when it is mentioned, but a clear dislike for the things and attitudes of the people who are so self-centered as to reject the Way that Jesus said He is. Such a stance is going to involve measures of correction and some of those measures will not be "a walk in the park."
Does that approach the answers you are looking for?
These verses have been addressed many times, but it appears Mr5150 has ignored the previous responses.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Clearly there are many people (perhaps even you and I) who have rejected the son, yet later came to Jesus, and we trust that they will be saved, correct? So this verse CANNOT be suggesting an ultimate impending doom of eternal hell, for then we would all be doomed, for (perhaps) we have all rejected the Son at some point. This verse is actually must be showing that God's wrath remains on people until they come to believe on the Son.
When posted in a discussion the universalists just close their fingers (as in typing a response) and hoped no one noticed. So I have decided to make these two biblical cites the subject of this thread. I copied my post in another thread which was carefully ignored by universalists.
***************
Seems some parts of the NT conflict with universalism. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy is part of God's nature. Not so happy, happy. Please note:
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. (so says John, the apostle)
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (so says Jesus)
Batter up....
Here is the deal. God's Wrath is meant to bring you to Him and understand His Goodness and to know His Goodness is to Know God. It is much like the parable of the prodigal son. The son goes away from his fathers house only to discover how good it was. This is part of our life journey to be under wrath in order to understand His goodness. To be exposed to the contrast in order to understand and see the light.
Now let's look at a better translation of John 3:36 from the YLT:
Joh 3:36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
The difference here is that in the version of the verse you quoted it makes it seems like those that rejected the Son wil never see life and that is not what the verse is saying. It is saying that those not believing the Son (in the present tense) cannot see the Son ever. But that doesn't mean that once they stop rejecting the Son that they won't see Him, for once they stop rejecting Him then they shall see Him.
It is kinda like saying those in the shower will never be dry. But if you come out of the shower you will be get dry. But so long as you stay in - you never will.
Now... Matthew 10:28:
Mat 10:28 `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.
The soul of every man will be destroyed since it is not His life. You cannot maintain your life and still obtain His life. Yours must be destroyed. The word for soul here is essentially the life of a person.
Paul said he died daily.
1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
The old man in each of us must be put to death. Is is the very reason your told the Gospel in order to slay the old man in each of us by the Sword of the Spirit. Because it is by two witnesses that one can be put two death.
Seems some parts of the NT conflict with universalism. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy is part of God's nature. Not so happy, happy. Please note:
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, (so says John, the apostle)
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (so says Jesus)
"....but whoever rejects My Son, My wrath remains on them.
"For My anger lasts only a moment, but My favor lasts a lifetime".
God obviously is a schizophrenic. That, or someone seriously monkeyed with the "Holy" Scriptures.
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. (so says John, the apostle) So what I hear is those who reject Christ are cool. No problem? OK...? You'll be OK despite what scripture says.
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (so says Jesus) No worries this is not for real (despite what Jesus says).
I love universalism. No worries however I live my life. I can be in total sin and spit in the face of God and I am still heaven bound.
This is SO COOL! No need to be right with God. I can live a life of selfish sin and debauchery and still go heaven! I love universalism. Sign me up. No need to accept Christ!!! Sweet.
Well I hope you guys are right, cuz I am going to devote my life to being in sin thinking that I am good heaven wise. What's more, I'm telling all of my friends and family they don't need to be right with God in this life. Heck Yea! Party till you drop! ***-in yea!
I love universalism. Much better than that stupid idea that you need to accept Jesus as savior and be right with God in this life.
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. (so says John, the apostle) So what I hear is those who reject Christ are cool. No problem? OK...? You'll be OK despite what scripture says.
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (so says Jesus) No worries this is not for real (despite what Jesus says).
I love universalism. No worries however I live my life. I can be in total sin and spit in the face of God and I am still heaven bound.
This is SO COOL! No need to be right with God. I can live a life of selfish sin and debauchery and still go heaven! I love universalism. Sign me up. No need to accept Christ!!! Sweet.
Well I hope you guys are right, cuz I am going to devote my life to being in sin thinking that I am good heaven wise. What's more, I'm telling all of my friends and family they don't need to be right with God in this life. Heck Yea! Party till you drop! ***-in yea!
I love universalism. Much better than that stupid idea that you need to accept Jesus as savior and be right with God in this life.
You are giving the impression that if you could get away with sin, you would like to. That it is only through fear of punishment that you would desire to do good and righteous acts. What a shame.
Matt 10:28 is talking about being fearless in the world, that in Christ we have no fear under a loving God who is also the one who "set things up" and could tear them down. Notice please that it does not say, "who destroys body and soul in hell."
John 3:36 has been addressed more than once, and the point is that "wrath" does not appear to be an emotional state we think of when it is mentioned, but a clear dislike for the things and attitudes of the people who are so self-centered as to reject the Way that Jesus said He is. Such a stance is going to involve measures of correction and some of those measures will not be "a walk in the park."
Does that approach the answers you are looking for?
Not only that, but all of God's spiritual laws are UNIVERSAL laws set in motion .... period. Just as we cannot defy gravity in the physical world -- we also cannot defy God's Universal Spiritual Laws in the spiritual realm. I wonder how many understand this? Semantics do not matter in all these things. I think that people who spend a lot of time in religious circles tend to become spiritual dullards.
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