Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Someone who is dead has No life in him. No physical life, No spiritual life, No life as a living soul.
We know according to Genesis 2 v 7 that after God breathed the breath of life into inanimate Adam, then Adam became, or came to be a ' living soul '. At death Adam 'returned' to the dust. Returned where Adam started. A person can not return to a place he never was before. All of Adam started in the dust, and all of Adam returned or went back to the dust of the ground. - Gen. 3 v 19 B.
Adam had No pre-human existence. Adam went back to that non-existent state.
Adam was Not created to be here for a short visit but to be here on earth forever
If Adam had not chosen to sin, Adam would be here on earth today.
Since Adam sinned and the price sin pays is: death - Romans 6 v 23, then Adam paid the price for his sin: with his death.
There was No post-mortem penalty for Adam. Adam died a physical death, Adam became a dead soul, when Adam sinned he also became spiritually dead with no hope for Adam of a resurrection or a returning to life anywhere.
As Ezekiel 18 vs 4,20 says that the soul that sins dies. Adam sinned: Adam died.- Acts 3 v 23.
So, Adam went from being a living soul to being a dead soul or a lifeless soul.
That is why Jesus could liken death to sleep [ No conscious existence in death ] - John 11 vs 11-14
Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew OT Scriptures that also teach sleep in death.
[References: Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13; Ecclesiastes 9 v 5 ]
Since God and Jesus are Not responsible for what Adam and Satan did, and we are Not responsible for their sins, we through Jesus can have a resurrection back from death's sleep awakened to life.- Romans 6 v 7; Acts 24 v 15
Some to life in heaven [ Rev 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10 ], and the majority of mankind [ John 3 v 13 ] back to healthy physical life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000-year kingdom reign over earth or earthly subjects- Psalm 72 vs 8,12-14.
Pre-human, no. Pre-physical? Maybe.
Personally, I don't think we were intended to live in this physical realm forever. I think we have always been intended to allow this physical form to return to the dust, so that the spiritual body could be taken up (1 Cor 15, for ref.). I just think we've all gone about it the hard way.
We had the choice to live in harmony and accord with the law of love, and thus be able to lay these physical bodies down willingly, when we had matured to the point where the time was ripe to continue on in the spiritual realm. Instead, we made the choice to degrade our condition through living out of harmony with God/love, with the result being that we now view physical death as an enemy because we gave away our authority over it.
Personally, I don't think we were intended to live in this physical realm forever. I think we have always been intended to allow this physical form to return to the dust, so that the spiritual body could be taken up (1 Cor 15, for ref.). I just think we've all gone about it the hard way.
We had the choice to live in harmony and accord with the law of love, and thus be able to lay these physical bodies down willingly, when we had matured to the point where the time was ripe to continue on in the spiritual realm. Instead, we made the choice to degrade our condition through living out of harmony with God/love, with the result being that we now view physical death as an enemy because we gave away our authority over it.
aisi
(I forgot to add my concluding thought to this ^^^.)
Therefore, I don't believe that physical death is the "last enemy" that is being talked about in the bible. And I don't believe the death being talked about is a cessation of existence (annihilation), either. I think that last enemy is the "spiritual" death that comes from being separated from God in our own minds.
"and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true ... this is the true God, and the life age-during".
That's the Life that is going to destroy the last enemy.
Personally, I don't think we were intended to live in this physical realm forever. I think we have always been intended to allow this physical form to return to the dust, so that the spiritual body could be taken up (1 Cor 15, for ref.). I just think we've all gone about it the hard way.
We had the choice to live in harmony and accord with the law of love, and thus be able to lay these physical bodies down willingly, when we had matured to the point where the time was ripe to continue on in the spiritual realm. Instead, we made the choice to degrade our condition through living out of harmony with God/love, with the result being that we now view physical death as an enemy because we gave away our authority over it.
aisi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
(I forgot to add my concluding thought to this ^^^.)
Therefore, I don't believe that physical death is the "last enemy" that is being talked about in the bible. And I don't believe the death being talked about is a cessation of existence (annihilation), either. I think that last enemy is the "spiritual" death that comes from being separated from God in our own minds.
"and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true ... this is the true God, and the life age-during".
That's the Life that is going to destroy the last enemy.
Very interesting witness and thoughts, Pleroo. We ARE told that eternal life is to KNOW God. I am pretty sure that doesn't mean just know ABOUT Him.
Very interesting witness and thoughts, Pleroo.We ARE told that eternal life is to KNOW God. I am pretty sure that doesn't mean just know ABOUT Him.
Exactly what I was building off of. And i completely agree that it's not just knowing about God, although that's a good start. But we obviously have to move beyond that, somehow.
Very interesting witness and thoughts, Pleroo. We ARE told that eternal life is to KNOW God. I am pretty sure that doesn't mean just know ABOUT Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Exactly what I was building off of. And i completely agree that it's not just knowing about God, although that's a good start. But we obviously have to move beyond that, somehow.
We move beyond that by trying to perfect our agape love toward life. The more we try the better we understand agape love and thus know God.
We move beyond that by trying to perfect our agape love toward life. The more we try the better we understand agape love and thus know God.
Very good post
Our former elder who died in 2004 said there is only one thing we need to be saved - to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul mind and strength. That sounds easy, but we must have that agape love for our Father in heaven and His Son to be able to fulfill the two great commandments to love God and our neighbors with agape love (even our enemies as Jesus and Steven so excellently demonstrated) praying for those who were murdering them.
Exactly what I was building off of. And i completely agree that it's not just knowing about God, although that's a good start. But we obviously have to move beyond that, somehow.
It also carries the idea that one will have such life as long as one keeps "knowing" God. Eternal if we eternally learn, somewhat less if we decide to stop.
It also carries the idea that one will have such life as long as one keeps "knowing" God. Eternal if we eternally learn, somewhat less if we decide to stop.
As long as Adam kept knowing [ obeying ] God then Adam had life. [ Not life in heaven but right here on earth ]
Adam was never offered immortality, but offered everlasting life only 'IF ' obedient to God.
The heavens were already populated with angelic creation before God created the material / physical realm.
The purpose of Jesus' 1000-year kingdom reign over earth is to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.
During that millennium-long day of reigning over earth according to Rev. 21 vs 4,5 even 'death will be no more'.
So, through Jesus, then God will bring our last enemy ' death ' to nothing.
Or, as Isaiah 25 v 8 says, that death will be swallowed up forever. Forever swallowed up as in gone forever.
No more death = everlasting life. Eternal life on earth as originally offered to Adam before he sinned.
Some resurrected to immortality in the heavens [ Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10], but the majority of mankind [ John 3 v 13 ] to be resurrected back to healthy physical life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus messianic millennial reign over earth.
- Acts 24 v 15.
Exactly what I was building off of. And i completely agree that it's not just knowing about God, although that's a good start. But we obviously have to move beyond that, somehow.
Good point ^ above ^ about not just knowing because it's Not just knowing [ head knowledge ] about God, but in gaining everlasting life in connection to: ' coming to know God.....' and to be known by God.
Jesus knew God well through prayer and referring to the pages of Scripture.
I personally believe that God, in His omniscience, knows the heart of every person on this earth who is hungering and thirsting for righteousness more than for anything else on this earth, and, in His omnipotence makes it possible for that person to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [which Peter said in Acts 5:32 that God gives to those who OBEY Him.]
Jeremiah said in Jer. 29:[13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
If we do not retain the power of the Holy Ghost until we die, we are not able to live a life that is pleasing to God and His Son. and will not enter into eternal life. Jesus said in Luke 17:[10] So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
When we have kept all His strict commandments, we will have nothing of which we can boast, since it was the Spirit of God which was working in and through us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We ARE told that eternal life is to KNOW God. I am pretty sure that doesn't mean just know ABOUT Him.
But we obviously have to move beyond that, somehow.
