Free Will Compared To Lordship Salvation--(Soteriology) (Gospel, doctrine, church)

[bartstarr1960]

Soteriology-Free Grace Compared To Lordship Salvation
I. Free Grace
1. Eternal life is trusting in Christ as one’s savior.
2. There are no conditions placed on salvation.
3. God’s Word is adequate for salvation assurance.
4. One can have assurance of salvation and commit sin.
5. Eternal Security (Once saved always saved.)
6. Gospel of John often cited John 4:10, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:47

Views within Free Grace
1. Basic Free Grace

a. Perseverance is not guaranteed.
b. All believers will produce fruit sometime
c. Apostasy is possible for believers
d. Rules and laws apply today
e. Accountability and believer’s future judgment

2. Reformed Free Grace

a. Perseverance is guaranteed.
b. Believers will produce visible good works
c. Apostasy is not possible for believers

3. Antinomianism

a. Perseverance is not guaranteed
b. Apostasy is possible for believer
c. Believer not under rules or laws today

II. Lordship Salvation
1. Salvation is more than trusting Christ.
2. Salvation conditions; turning from sins, committing life to Christ, baptism, obedience, perseverance in faith
3. God’s Word insufficient for salvation, works must be considered
4. Firm salvation assurance while in sin not guaranteed
5. Divided over eternal security (once saved always saved)
6. Luke 3:8-14, Acts 3:19, Acts 26:20 often cited

Views within Lordship Salvation
1. Arminian

a. Must commit all to the Lord
b. Major sins must be forsaken before salvation occurs
c. Baptism, confession of sins and other conditions necessary
d. Perseverance not guaranteed
e. Salvation lost by failure to persevere
f. Apostasy possible for believer

2. Reformed-Strong

a. Must commit all to the Lord
b. Major sins must be forsaken before salvation occurs
c. Apostasy very rare and short lived
d. Perseverance not guaranteed
e. Doctrine of rewards and believer’s future judgment not stressed

3. Reformed-Mild

a. Willingness to turn from sin needed for salvation
b. Must commit life to the Lord for salvation
c. Once saved always saved

This is not intended to be ‘everything there is to know’ about Free Grace and Lordship Salvation. I purposely did not entitle this Free Grace VERSUS Lordship Salvation. There is simply too much polarization today. Some are passionate insisting one view is correct, or superior to another.

"Remember this; or you may fall into error by fixing your minds so much upon the faith which is the channel of salvation as to forget the grace which is the fountain and source even of faith itself. Faith is the work of God's grace in us, No man comes to Me," says Jesus, "except the Father who sent Me draws him. . .Grace is the first and last moving cause of salvation; and faith, essential as it is, is only an important part of the machinery which grace employs. We are saved "through faith," but salvation is 'by grace.'" –C.H. Spurgeon

If I've made any errors please bring them to my attention so they can be corrected.

[Mikelee81]

A LOT of the confusion comes from the book of Hebrews and other books and WHO is being classified.

The Bible talks about those that are "Saved out of Egypt".

It also talks about those that "fell in the wilderness" after being "saved" out of Egypt due to "unbelief" (the word also is used as "disobedience" and the EXAMPLES that are used are BOTH examples of BELIEF (not believing God would deliver the land and defeat the Giants AND "works" ie fornication, idolatry, etc.)

So the ultimate question is were those that fell in the wilderness ultimately Saved..?

The book of Jude and the book of Corinthians also talks about those that have been saved out of Egypt that afterward were destroyed in the wilderness due to unbelief/disobedience.

The book of Corinthians talks about those in the Carnal Corinth church that "fell asleep" (a word that is used of believers generally throughout Scripture. Since the letters are to the "Church", people use this Scripture suggesting that these people while yet carnal and destroyed physically were ultimately saved by Jesus Christ probably losing all eternal rewards in the Kingdom.

The problem is the same phraseology is used in the Book of Jude when it talks about false teachers. The warning is there regarding those that were once saved out of the land of Egypt but then were destroyed in the wilderness. The comparison is used for the Angels that did not "keep not their first estate" (abide in Christ /John 15?). It talks about the "way of Cain"/hatred, Korah's rebellion (coveting power and position), and Balaam (greed).

The Book of Jude is certainly talking about those that are not saved, and it is very clear on that front when it says the "blackness of darkness is reserved forever."

I personally currently have to believe that "all things are working together for GOOD to those that love God and are called according to His purpose". (Romans 8) I believe that we must KNOW that we are saved to live the Christian life because if we do not KNOW that ALL THINGS are working together for good to those that love God and are called according to His purpose, than POSSIBLY ALL things are working together for bad as all of my trials and failures are ultimately there for God to demonstrate His Justice and Power in Judgment not His Mercy and Forgiveness.

I think it is REQUIRED for Christians that have received Christ to KNOW they are SAVED by CHRIST to even be able to live the Christian life. How in the world is tribulation going to work patience and Godlikeness through suffering if I do not KNOW that I am saved. If I believe all things are working together for bad, than trials and suffering will not be embraced through Faith.

Correct Doctrine produces correct works with the correct motivation. I believe that "Easy Believism" IS <<underline that "Lordship Salvation". I believe all of these titles are of Man not God and they confuse things. Ultimately all Believers will submit and obey Jesus Christ because God put it in our hearts to do so. His Works not ours. Believers will not FULLY SUBMIT or FULLY OBEY PERFECTLY because we are still in this fleshly body. So the definition of "Lordship Salvation" being Perfect Obedience (thus justification by the Law) is NOT what is being talked about here. The confusion comes from how people are defining these terms.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by bartstarr1960

Soteriology-Free Grace Compared To Lordship Salvation
I. Free Grace
1. Eternal life is trusting in Christ as one’s savior.
2. There are no conditions placed on salvation.
3. God’s Word is adequate for salvation assurance.
4. One can have assurance of salvation and commit sin.
5. Eternal Security (Once saved always saved.)
6. Gospel of John often cited John 4:10, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:47

Views within Free Grace
1. Basic Free Grace

a. Perseverance is not guaranteed.
b. All believers will produce fruit sometime
c. Apostasy is possible for believers
d. Rules and laws apply today
e. Accountability and believer’s future judgment

2. Reformed Free Grace

a. Perseverance is guaranteed.
b. Believers will produce visible good works
c. Apostasy is not possible for believers

3. Antinomianism

a. Perseverance is not guaranteed
b. Apostasy is possible for believer
c. Believer not under rules or laws today

Hi Bart. I'm glad you're posting again. Both views cannot be correct because they are opposing views.

The Lordship salvation view does not distinguish between justification and positional sanctification which occurs at moment of faith in Christ, and experiential sanctification which is the result of spiritual growth in the believer's life after having been saved through faith in Christ and therefore imposes experiential sanctification as a condition for eternal salvation.

But the Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). While there was a price to be paid to make salvation possible, that price was paid in full by Jesus Christ and therefore salvation is free for us. When Jesus said 'it is finished' (John 19:30), He meant that He had accomplished everything that was necessary in order for salvation to be made possible for those who simply put their faith in Him (Acts 16:31).

I. Free Grace
1. Eternal life is trusting in Christ as one’s savior.
2. There are no conditions placed on salvation.

Eternal life is offered as a free gift which we are invited to accept.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death (Christ paid that price for us), but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, ''Come.'' And let the one who hears say, ''Come.'' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

3. God’s Word is adequate for salvation assurance.

Absolutely.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

4. One can have assurance of salvation and commit sin.

The believer's sins are handled as a family matter. The believer is disciplined as a son. Not condemned to the lake of fire.

Hebrews 12:4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5] and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, ''My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; 6] For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives.'' 7] It is for discipline that you endure, God deals with you as wit sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

5. Eternal Security (Once saved always saved.)
6. Gospel of John often cited John 4:10, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:47

John 6: 39 ''This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40] ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Eternal life is a free gift and is irrevocable. Jesus is able to save forever those for whom He intercedes, and He will do the Father's will and not lose anyone who believes on Him.

And if the believer becomes faithless;

2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

If the believer wishes to rule (a reward) with Christ he must endure, but he has eternal life even if he becomes faithless.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him (we were identified with Christ in His death and burial when we first believed on Him) we will also live with Him: 12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us (rewards); 13] If we are faithless (if we deny Him) He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

The verses speak of the believer's eternal security.

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Mike555

The believer's sins are handled as a family matter. The believer is disciplined as a son. Not condemned to the lake of fire.

Nepotism?

[nateswift]

Lol.
And just believing that Jesus is capable of saving makes the difference?