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The church of Christ is not an organization, it is an organism because it consist of members who are the people (1 Cor. 12:12), but this organism has organization. Yes, you do have to be baptized to be saved because it is a commandment of God. It shows an act of OBEDIENCE and we have to obey to be saved (Heb. 5:8-9), but it does NOT save by itself. There is a combination of things that must take place. If God says to do something, don't argue about it, don't question it, just do it. How can you go wrong when you obey God?
You go wrong by assuming God would want mindless robotic "obeyers" from His amazing creations. Of what value could that possibly be? Children do not obey just to obey . . . they obey until they learn to understand what to do or not do ON THEIR OWN as mature adults. Jesus came to clarify that because the OT "obeyers" were so screwed up and kept adding commandments to be blindly obeyed. Obedience is NOT the objective . . . "LOVE is. Love of God and each other" . . . THOSE are the primary commandments of Jesus for His maturing adult children. God could not possibly want a bunch of mindless "pets" doing all the required "tricks" in their obedience trials. That is a sure sign of an immature soul.
You go wrong by assuming God would want mindless robotic "obeyers" from His amazing creations. Of what value could that possibly be? Children do not obey just to obey . . . they obey until they learn to understand what to do or not do ON THEIR OWN as mature adults. Jesus came to clarify that because the OT "obeyers" were so screwed up and kept adding commandments to be blindly obeyed. Obedience is NOT the objective . . . "LOVE is. Love of God and each other" . . . THOSE are the primary commandments of Jesus for His maturing adult children. God could not possibly want a bunch of mindless "pets" doing all the required "tricks" in their obedience trials. That is a sure sign of an immature soul.
You go wrong by assuming God would want mindless robotic "obeyers" from His amazing creations. Of what value could that possibly be? Children do not obey just to obey . . . they obey until they learn to understand what to do or not do ON THEIR OWN as mature adults. Jesus came to clarify that because the OT "obeyers" were so screwed up and kept adding commandments to be blindly obeyed. Obedience is NOT the objective . . . "LOVE is. Love of God and each other" . . . THOSE are the primary commandments of Jesus for His maturing adult children. God could not possibly want a bunch of mindless "pets" doing all the required "tricks" in their obedience trials. That is a sure sign of an immature soul.
The apostles were not mindless and robotic. They did what God told them to do. Nothing more, nothing less. I agree with you about love. The two (2) great commandments were based on love (Matt. 22:36-39), but obedience follows (John 14:15).
You go wrong by assuming God would want mindless robotic "obeyers" from His amazing creations. Of what value could that possibly be? Children do not obey just to obey . . . they obey until they learn to understand what to do or not do ON THEIR OWN as mature adults. Jesus came to clarify that because the OT "obeyers" were so screwed up and kept adding commandments to be blindly obeyed. Obedience is NOT the objective . . . "LOVE is. Love of God and each other" . . . THOSE are the primary commandments of Jesus for His maturing adult children. God could not possibly want a bunch of mindless "pets" doing all the required "tricks" in their obedience trials. That is a sure sign of an immature soul.
It's absurd to think God does not want obedience. What did Noah do in Gen 6:22? "all that God commanded him". There are tons of verses saying obey and such like.
Even Saul in 1 Samuel was punished bc he did not obey what God said in verse 22 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, [and] to hearken than the fat of rams.
Here are others:
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Read all those verses and then try to tell someone they do not need to obey Almighty God our creator. There is no biblical evidence to say do not obey God.
It's absurd to think God does not want obedience. What did Noah do in Gen 6:22? "all that God commanded him". There are tons of verses saying obey and such like.
Even Saul in 1 Samuel was punished bc he did not obey what God said in verse 22 "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD [as great] delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, [and] to hearken than the fat of rams.
Here are others:
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Read all those verses and then try to tell someone they do not need to obey Almighty God our creator. There is no biblical evidence to say do not obey God.
With no understanding . . . obedience is all that can be used to develop self-control over attitudes and behavior. That is the problem with instructions in written form . . . they have a veil over them that hinders understanding . . . as with the OT. Jesus came to remove that veil, reveal the TRUE NATURE of God, and provide a living guide within us (Holy Spirit) to help us understand what God has now "written in our hearts " . . . not in some book. 1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
With no understanding . . . obedience is all that can be used to develop self-control over attitudes and behavior. That is the problem with instructions in written form . . . they have a veil over them that hinders understanding . . . as with the OT. Jesus came to remove that veil, reveal the TRUE NATURE of God, and provide a living guide within us (Holy Spirit) to help us understand what God has now "written in our hearts " . . . not in some book. 1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
So you say that God gives us the Holy Spirit to help us understand the things written in our hearts. Well, how do you think the Holy Spirit help us? Through the WORD OF GOD (Eph. 6:17). We purify our souls in obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22). Well, what is truth (John 17:17)? Everything that God wants us to know is written in his word (1 John 5:13; Heb. 10:7). Everything that you know concerning God, you got it from His word. If you won't accept His word, then you can't have Him (John 12:48; 2 John 9).
So you say that God gives us the Holy Spirit to help us understand the things written in our hearts. Well, how do you think the Holy Spirit help us? Through the WORD OF GOD (Eph. 6:17). We purify our souls in obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22). Well, what is truth (John 17:17)? Everything that God wants us to know is written in his word (1 John 5:13; Heb. 10:7). Everything that you know concerning God, you got it from His word. If you won't accept His word, then you can't have Him (John 12:48; 2 John 9).
Well said!
I can't imagine believing in God and His bible, yet not obeying it or Him. No person has a right to use their own "wisdom" to add or take away from the bible. God knows best! If you can not back up what you teach with bible, it is false.
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" Prov. 14:12
So you say that God gives us the Holy Spirit to help us understand the things written in our hearts. Well, how do you think the Holy Spirit help us? Through the WORD OF GOD (Eph. 6:17).
And JESUS is the WORD OF GOD, period.
Quote:
We purify our souls in obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22). Well, what is truth (John 17:17)? Everything that God wants us to know is written in his word (1 John 5:13; Heb. 10:7). Everything that you know concerning God, you got it from His word. If you won't accept His word, then you can't have Him (John 12:48; 2 John 9).
Jesus IS God's WORD. We purify our souls by reading through the "mind of Christ" and Jesus's eyes to penetrate the veil of primitive ignorance in the scriptures . . or we spend an inordinate amount of time educating ourselves about them. The first is easiest and available to us ALL . . . Jesus is within us as is everything we need to discern truth "written in our hearts" . . . NOT blind literal reading and robotic obedience to the "precepts and doctrines of men."
And JESUS is the WORD OF GOD, period.Jesus IS God's WORD. We purify our souls by reading through the "mind of Christ" and Jesus's eyes to penetrate the veil of primitive ignorance in the scriptures . . or we spend an inordinate amount of time educating ourselves about them. The first is easiest and available to us ALL . . . Jesus is within us as is everything we need to discern truth "written in our hearts" . . . NOT blind literal reading and robotic obedience to the "precepts and doctrines of men."
I would love to hear what you know about God and His will for us outside of the bible. Could you tell us that and also how He told you outside of the bible?
And nobody said obey doctrines of men, we are talking about obeying the bible, God's word.
I can't imagine believing in God and His bible, yet not obeying it or Him. No person has a right to use their own "wisdom" to add or take away from the bible. God knows best! If you can not back up what you teach with bible, it is false.
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" Prov. 14:12
This pious appeal to stay ignorant of anything except the literal reading of "precepts and doctrines of men" as recorded by primitives and compiled by political men with various agendas 1600+ years ago . . . AS IF you are obeying God . . . is just sad. This can only be done by rejecting your better nature found within each of us under guidance of the Holy Spirit and Jesus. We are unlike our primitive ancestors . . . they were "blinded" because they did not have anything "written in their hearts" . . . we do. They did not have a guide and comforter within . . . the Holy Spirit . . . we do. Search deep within for that small voice that will tell you when something you are reading does NOT reflect the "spirit" but only the "letter" of what was written. Dont be blind readers and robots. Use the filter of Jesus's mind and "love of God and each other" . . . it will never lead you astray.
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