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If we are "commanded" to have mechanical instruments of music in worship, does everyone in your congregation have an instrument? If not, then they wouldn't be obeying the command.
We are not commanded to use them, we are "free" to use them.
Read Exodus 30:1-9, particularly verse 9, then read Leviticus 10:1-2, you will see what happens when you disobey God by not doing "exactly" what He commands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thupli
Have you never read the rest of Leviticus 10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher c. sr.
Yes, I have.
Then you should retract your "you will see what happens when you disobey God by not doing "exactly" what He commands." comment, since in the same chapter Aaron's sons dont follow "exactly" what had been commanded, but God spares them. You cant generalize something like that, at least not if you are being rational.
We are not commanded to use them, we are "free" to use them.
If you read carefully post #1308, it says "we are commanded to sing with the mechanical instruments of music" (psalms) and then says "we are free to use them". If you are commanded to do something, then that does not give you the freedom to do something else.
Then you should retract your "you will see what happens when you disobey God by not doing "exactly" what He commands." comment, since in the same chapter Aaron's sons dont follow "exactly" what had been commanded, but God spares them. You cant generalize something like that, at least not if you are being rational.
Aaron had four sons: Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. The first two were burned to death. These were the two in which I'm referring to. The other two did as they were told to do.
Aaron had four sons: Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. The first two were burned to death. These were the two in which I'm referring to. The other two did as they were told to do.
You should read the rest of Leviticus 11. Specifically the last paragraph where they screw up the burnt offering. Doesnt sound like you know your bible very well, just the parts that you like to support the points you are making.
You should read the rest of Leviticus 11. Specifically the last paragraph where they screw up the burnt offering. Doesnt sound like you know your bible very well, just the parts that you like to support the points you are making.
Generalizers will generalize, lol.
Maybe you should read Jn. 5:39 where the bible says to search the scriptures. I can use different scriptures to support my point. The bible is repetitious. It can say one thing in a book/chapter and say the same thing in another, just worded differently. That's what they are there for. I can't say that I know everything in the bible, but I do know some.
there is one practice mentioned that goes directly against Scripture - forbidding the use of musical instruments. Church of Christ believes that since the use of musical instruments isn't mentioned in the New Testament, that their use of such mechanical sound producers is therefore forbidden.
The use of musical instruments to praise the Lord is mentioned in the New Testament ... Paul the apostle said to sing PSALMS and the word 'psalm' has the following meaning:
[Old English, from Late Latin psalmus, from Greek psalmos: a song accompanied on the harp, from psallein to play (the harp)]
King David wrote psalms, he also sang psalms and ... he was a master harp (lyre) player and, he had a choir director too { 8^ )
Jesus invented music and musical instruments. Jesus loves words that praise HIm and are accompanied by musical instruments - as long as your heart is in the right place (ie, not just getting into the beat, singing the words without listening to the words, not lifting your heart to Him, ect).
Therefore, saying musical instruments can't be used in a church service (or to praise the Lord) is called false doctrine, since Paul clearly says to sing psalms when you come together to fellowship.
1Co 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together,
every one of you hath a psalm [psalmos], hath a doctrine,
hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
from Strong's Concordance ...
psalmos: From G5567; a set piece of music, that is, a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a “psalm”); collectively the book of the Psalms: - psalm.
Jesus loves You. Do you love Him? If you truly love Him you will obey (do) His commands.
I would like to say that The real issue here is that the Church of Christ has made a doctrine from the absence of evidence. It is a fallacy of reason and logic to argue a point from silence. I mean to say, that one can not promote as valid a point simply because there is no mention of it. This is like saying since the Bible does not mention X,y,or Z in the New testament then the Bible does not want us to do X,Y, and Z. This is flawed logic. The Bible does not speak exhaustively on all issues and does not claim to do so. In fact, the Bible itself tells us that it does not contain all that thee is to know, especially in reference to the like and works of Jesus. John:21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. Since there are other things that Jesus did, should we just make stories up about additional acts of the savior? God forbid! Where the Bible does not teach we can reason things but we can not make it a biblical truth or a mandate, if the Bible does not do so itself. The extreme position that musical instruments are forbidden in worship is not and can not be borne out of scripture unless one does damage to the texts or simply reason from silence, which is a commonly recognized flaw in reason and logic.
Last edited by hunterne; 04-03-2011 at 09:00 AM..
Reason: spelling
In answer to your question, please read Amos 6:1-5, espacially verse 5.
How did you become "more mature " in your " walk with Christ? I understand maturity comes with knowing the word of God and obeying it.
Amos 6:1-8 Is the chiding of the Lord to Jacob who sang and played the instrument unto themselves at their banquets of sin. They ought rather to have grieved for the affliction of Joseph as the Lord said in verse 6.
There is a time to grieve and repent and a time to rejoice and sing with the instrument like David did. They where making instruments like David but they did not play like David. God looks upon the intent of the heart!
There is a time for everything under the sun as the proverbs say. To take things out of context is to make up your own word and make the Word of God of none effect.
Good read about instruments...
Can we use musical instruments in the church?
by Matt Slick
Some churches deny the use of musical instruments in their churches because they do not seem them clearly used in the New Testament.* Therefore, many ask if it is okay to use musical instruments in worship.* The answer is best given by scripture:
"Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God," (Col. 3:16).* Also, "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord," (Eph. 5:18).
We are commanded by the Lord to receive teaching and admonish each other with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing to God.* Singing to God is definitely worship and this is done in churches.* Therefore, we are commanded to do this with psalm, hymns, and spiritual songs.
In particular, the Psalms contain instructions that we worship the Lord with musical instruments:
The introduction of Psalm 6, which is part of scripture, not an addition by commentators, says, "For the choir director; with stringed instruments, upon an eight-string lyre, A Psalm of David."
Psalm 33:2, "Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre; sing praises to Him with a harp of ten strings."
Psalm 71:22, "I will also praise Thee with a harp, even Thy truth, O my God; to Thee I will sing praises with the lyre, O Thou Holy One of Israel."
Psalm 81:1, "Sing for joy to God our strength; shout joyfully to the God of Jacob.* 2Raise a song, strike the timbrel, the sweet sounding lyre with the harp.* 3Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the full moon, on our feast day."
Psalm 92:1-4, "It is good to give thanks to the Lord, and to sing praises to Thy name, O Most High; 2To declare Thy lovingkindness in the morning, and Thy faithfulness by night, 3With the ten-stringed lute, and with the harp; with resounding music upon the lyre.* 4For Thou, O Lord, hast made me glad by what Thou hast done, I will sing for joy at the works of Thy hands."
Psalm 98:5, "Sing praises to the Lord with the lyre; with the lyre and the sound of melody. 6With trumpets and the sound of the horn.* Shout joyfully before the King, the Lord."
Furthermore, in Eph 5:19, the phrase "making melody" is the Greek word, psallo which means, "1) to pluck off, pull out, 2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang, 2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate, 2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc. 2c) to sing to the music of the harp 2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song."1 We can see that the making melody to the Lord involves the use of musical instruments.
Therefore, we are free to use musical instruments in the church in our worship to the Lord.
Eph 5:19speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord
We are the instruments.
When were the first instruments brought into the worship service? it was centuries after the Church was established. Somewhere around the 600's A.D. is the popular historical first accounting of the use of organs in a worship.
why were they brought into the worship service then? why after 600 years? think about it...
i have attended a methodist church. they use intstruments. John Wesley had some interesting thoughts on instrumental music. by the way... he was the reputed founder of the Methodist Church.
'I have no objection to instruments of music in our worship, provided they are neither seen nor heard." (John Wesley, founder of Methodism, quoted in Adam Clarke's Commentary, Vol. 4, p. 685)
however, today... they use them... i find this fascinating.
times change. what people want change.
God does not change. we have to go to Him. We have to walk out of this world into His.
I do not condemn anyone to hell. that's not my job. I caution any God fearing person to know God better every day. As i aspire to do myself.
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