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So I wouldn't say that his return was imminent "all these centuries", but that it had a very specific time-frame, and that time-frame was missed about 2000 years ago. Sorry.
It was easy to miss with everyone looking in the physical realm. Pentecost was the culmination of Christ's coming back as the Comforter within the consciousness of humanity. Just saying.
According to the actual text of the New Testament, Jesus' return was to occur during the lifetime of some of his Apostles. This is why many of his ethical teachings can be rightly termed "interim ethics" - ethics that are only meant to be kept between the time Jesus stated them and the imminent return. Otherwise, many of them are not workable models of behavior (quitting your job, giving all your money away, leaving your family) - they only work with the assumption that the end is nigh, and extremely nigh.
In the Gospel of Mark, after telling his followers prophecies of the end-times (the "Eschaton"), Jesus tells them exactly when this will happen:
Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. (Mark 13:30, NRSV)
Similar sentiments can be found in the Gospel of Matthew, at least, and the saying "there are some standing here who will not taste death until the Son of Man comes into his Kingdom", etc.
This is the apocalyptic nature of Jesus' message. Even in the later New Testament writings, when the return of Jesus did not occur, the writers had to begin apologizing and misinterpreting Jesus' very plain words into something they were never meant to mean. A generation is a generation. That is all. Jesus was not speaking in one of "God's days", unless we wish to apply that to every single time he mentions time - and that just gets silly.
So I wouldn't say that his return was imminent "all these centuries", but that it had a very specific time-frame, and that time-frame was missed about 2000 years ago. Sorry.
Wow man, this is all very interesting. I've had a tendency to think similarly about the time frame he was referring to, but didn't put it together with the "giving all your money away" philosophy being connected to that.
It was easy to miss with everyone looking in the physical realm. Pentecost was the culmination of Christ's coming back as the Comforter within the consciousness of humanity. Just saying.
Yes, but Christ said some would not taste death before seeing him "coming on the clouds"...which very much implies a physical return.
It was easy to miss with everyone looking in the physical realm. Pentecost was the culmination of Christ's coming back as the Comforter within the consciousness of humanity. Just saying.
I do totally get what you're saying though. I think my question is more directed toward the idea of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which I do not think is correct. There could not have been an "imminent pre-trib" rapture without the remaining prophecies being fulfilled (and we also have the one about Damascus that has yet to come to pass, though I suppose it soon could).
It was easy to miss with everyone looking in the physical realm. Pentecost was the culmination of Christ's coming back as the Comforter within the consciousness of humanity. Just saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
Yes, but Christ said some would not taste death before seeing him "coming on the clouds"...which very much implies a physical return.
I disagree . . . given the primitive carnal mindset at the time. It more closely implicates the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jordan. They did NOT taste death before Pentecost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses
I do totally get what you're saying though. I think my question is more directed toward the idea of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which I do not think is correct. There could not have been an "imminent pre-trib" rapture without the remaining prophecies being fulfilled (and we also have the one about Damascus that has yet to come to pass, though I suppose it soon could).
I think all such divination attempts are fruitless . . . not to mention expressly discouraged.
I disagree . . . given the primitive carnal mindset at the time. It more closely implicates the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ at the Jordan. They did NOT taste death before Pentecost.
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 Assuredly, I say to you, there aresome standing here who shall not taste deathtill they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
But it implies (highlighted above) that some of them will taste death, since it says above that some will not. But at PENTECOST, none of them had died, correct? They were all still alive. So isn't that just a bit too soon of a return?
Also I thought that Jesus Coming in his Kingdom occurs after the Judgment.
Also I think there is actually a more carnal mindset these days than there was back then. The primitives attributed all kinds of various phenomena to non-physical beings or "gods" whereas nowadays most people are into scientific explanations.
Last edited by TwoWitnesses; 02-17-2014 at 05:15 PM..
It was easy to miss with everyone looking in the physical realm. Pentecost was the culmination of Christ's coming back as the Comforter within the consciousness of humanity. Just saying.
It would have been very simple for Jesus to state that this return was not to be physical. He talked about His Kingdom being "not of this world" often enough. It's only easy to miss if you aren't saying what you really mean. If you are intentionally ambiguous...then ANYTHING is easy to miss. He used the word SEE which implies physical return. If he just wanted to confuse those who already believed in him then I could say that you're right...but why would he do that? I'm not God or even close but I could make it very clear if I had to tell someone something like that.
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