would it still be Heaven to you if none of the people you loved on Earth weren't there? (Revelation, believe)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would find it hard for me to enjoy Heaven if all of the people I've loved on Earth were suffering in Hell, to me the people who I loved on Earth made my stay on Earth like it was Heaven and I would love to continue on with the good times I've had with them in Heaven, many of my friends past and present are Christians.
First of all, those called to heaven have a first or earlier resurrection before the rest of mankind.- Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10
All who died before Jesus [ John 3 v 13 ] do Not have a heavenly resurrection, but will have a future resurrection back to healthy physical life on earth during Jesus' 1000-year kingdom reign over earth.- Acts 24 v 15.
Was Jesus suffering while Jesus was in hell ?______- Acts 2 v 27
Jesus taught Not suffering in hell but just being in an unconscious sleep like condition.- John 11 vs 11-14
That sleep-like condition is also taught at Ecclesiastes 9 v 5; Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13
That is because the Bible's hell is mankind's temporary grave until resurrected out of hell.
Jesus has the keys to unlock the Bible's temporary hell or grave - Rev. 1 v 18
Revelation [ 20 vs 13,14 ] mentions that everyone in hell is ' delivered up ' [ resurrected ] out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic permanent ' second death ' for vacated hell. [ No more graves on earth - Rev. 21 vs 4,5 ]
' Enemy death ' will be brought to nothing - 1st Cor. 15 v 26; Isaiah 25 v 8
We are nearing the threshold of Matthew 25 vs 31, 32 when the humble ' sheep ' or genuine ' wheat ' Christians can remain alive on Earth and continue living on Earth right into the start of Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth with the prospect of gaining everlasting life on Earth. in other words, the humble meek will inherit the Earth - Psalm 37 vs 11,29
Inherit the earthly realm of God's kingdom - Psalm 72 v 8 - when Jesus will have subjects from sea to sea.
Thus, all the ' sheep/wheat ' can enjoy everlasting life as originally offered to Adam on a beautiful paradisaic Earth forever.- Rev. 22 v 2
I have no idea what this means. Sorry. twin.speak wasn't offered when I was in school.
Here's what I believe: God loves us more than we can comprehend. I believe God reunites us, in Heaven, with those we've loved while on this Earth. I believe love is eternal. I also share Katzpur's belief that there will be many wonderful surprises. It's a very exciting thought.
1 Corinthians 13:13
oh, and "All you need is love." - John Lennon (All together now!)
my bad ... what I was attempting to say is it seems you're placing the bar on what will happen based on "I expect therefore God will" rather than on "God will therefore I accept".
There is nothing from scripture that substantiates the totality of
I believe God reunites us, in Heaven, with those we've loved while on this Earth. I believe love is eternal.
when one rejects while another does not reject. Everyone is held accountable individually, judged individually. No earthly relationships have any bearing nor will carry over into the courtroom of God that influences the eternal residency of a person.
Actually, I think the reason most want their loved ones in Heaven is because they.... wait for the good news..... LOVE them. Personally, I believe love is the greatest force in the universe and I believe that I'll be reunited, in a place I call Heaven, with those I have loved on this earth.
Would it still be Heaven without them? No. Because I don't believe God separates us from those we love.
Is it God who would separate us from those we love, or according to Micah 6 v 8 who walks away ?_________
God requires that we walk humbly with Him [ His statues, standards ]
So, there is No mistake as to who separates from God.
Where did Jesus resurrect the dead? Wasn't it back to healthy life on Earth ?_______
The healing, curings and resurrections that Jesus performed while on Earth was a small-scale preview of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND scale during Jesus' 1000-year kingdom reign over Earth.
The majority of mankind will live on an edenic-like beautiful Earth, whereas those called to heaven have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven before the rest of mankind is resurrected back to healthy life on a paradisic Earth when there will be the return of the Genesis ' tree of life' .*
* Revelation 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10; John 3 v 13; Rev. 22 v 2
As for those alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32 ] the humble ' sheep ' can remain forever alive on Earth, and continue living forever on Earth starting with Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth when Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
I suspect our differences come from how we view the Bible. I don't share your (apparent) belief that the Bible is the one and only source of knowledge about God and Heaven. I believe it is a source. One of many. Not all of them are written and they are not confined to Christianity.
.....when one rejects while another does not reject. Everyone is held accountable individually, judged individually. No earthly relationships have any bearing nor will carry over into the courtroom of God that influences the eternal residency of a person.
Jesus does Not call his spiritual ' brothers' [ Matthew 25 v 40 ] to heaven, but God, as the Father of Jesus, calls who will be Jesus' heavenly brothers.- 1st Cor. 15 v 50; Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10.
Those Not called to be a resident of heaven [ humble sheep of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 ] are judged as righteous - verse 37.
They are called to be righteous permanent residents of Earth starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over Earth.
Jesus ' brothers ' are judged first and resurrected as being first or earlier than the rest of mankind.- John 3 v 13
The majority of mankind will have eternal residency [ eternal life ] on Earth.
God's purpose for Adam was to live forever on Earth as long as obedient.
That is the same purpose for Adam's descendants [ us ] to have permanent residency on Earth.
Permanent healthy physical life on Earth having a sound heart, mind and body capable of everlasting life on Earth.
On a paradisaic Earth free from sickness and death.- Rev. 21 vs 4,5; 1st Cor. 15 v 26; Isaiah 25 v 8
I suspect our differences come from how we view the Bible. I don't share your (apparent) belief that the Bible is the one and only source of knowledge about God and Heaven. I believe it is a source. One of many. Not all of them are written and they are not confined to Christianity.
That's unfortunate ... for the true God says there is only one source, one path. No one else has the truth:
Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the LORD leads to life, and whoever has it rests satisfied; he will not be visited by harm.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Is it God who would separate us from those we love, or according to Micah 6 v 8 who walks away ?_________
God requires that we walk humbly with Him [ His statues, standards ]
So, there is No mistake as to who separates from God.
Where did Jesus resurrect the dead? Wasn't it back to healthy life on Earth ?_______
The healing, curings and resurrections that Jesus performed while on Earth was a small-scale preview of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND scale during Jesus' 1000-year kingdom reign over Earth.
The majority of mankind will live on an edenic-like beautiful Earth, whereas those called to heaven have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven before the rest of mankind is resurrected back to healthy life on a paradisic Earth when there will be the return of the Genesis ' tree of life' .*
* Revelation 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10; John 3 v 13; Rev. 22 v 2
As for those alive on Earth at the soon coming ' time of separation ' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32 ] the humble ' sheep ' can remain forever alive on Earth, and continue living forever on Earth starting with Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth when Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Jesus does Not call his spiritual ' brothers' [ Matthew 25 v 40 ] to heaven, but God, as the Father of Jesus, calls who will be Jesus' heavenly brothers.- 1st Cor. 15 v 50; Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10.
Those Not called to be a resident of heaven [ humble sheep of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 ] are judged as righteous - verse 37.
They are called to be righteous permanent residents of Earth starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over Earth.
Jesus ' brothers ' are judged first and resurrected as being first or earlier than the rest of mankind.- John 3 v 13
The majority of mankind will have eternal residency [ eternal life ] on Earth.
God's purpose for Adam was to live forever on Earth as long as obedient.
That is the same purpose for Adam's descendants [ us ] to have permanent residency on Earth.
Permanent healthy physical life on Earth having a sound heart, mind and body capable of everlasting life on Earth.
On a paradisaic Earth free from sickness and death.- Rev. 21 vs 4,5; 1st Cor. 15 v 26; Isaiah 25 v 8
If you ever want to research where I have quoted in numerous OP's about Millennialism concerning that it's been historically held as a heresy, then I would not if I were you base your entire hope on false suppositions in the hope I would read such ... let alone attempt to follow the multi-directional and historical change of thought when after it proves itself wrong.
I would if I were you, please search where I posted excerpts from theologians who state:
The Augsburg Confession the 17th article alludes to the origin of this error
Martin Luther held the position that Millennialism is a heresy (sermon preached in 1539)
John Calvin wrote that the doctrine of the millenarians is a "fiction too puerile to require or deserve refutation"
A Lutheran theologian once wrote:
Millennialism outright denies the church's hope of Christ's only return to judgment and those (who) as historically theologians describe such false teachers) as their attempt to " transport it into the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations" belong to the scoffers who, Peter warned, would come, "scoffing and following their own evil desires" (2 Peter 3:3)..
Please again .... save your time by trying to convince me contrary to what I most adamantly hold as:
"the stratosphere of their own esoteric speculations" that belong to the scoffers
who, Peter warned, would come, "scoffing and following their own evil desires" (2 Peter 3:3)"
Actually, I think the reason most want their loved ones in Heaven is because they.... wait for the good news..... LOVE them. Personally, I believe love is the greatest force in the universe and I believe that I'll be reunited, in a place I call Heaven, with those I have loved on this earth.
Would it still be Heaven without them? No. Because I don't believe God separates us from those we love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
No, that wouldn't be Heaven for me, and it's really hard for me to understand how anyone can say it would be. The love for people we have known on earth isn't going to suddenly disappear the second we enter Heaven, and we're not going to simply stop caring for those individuals. Fortunately, though, to believe in God is to believe that, in the end, everything will be fair and there will be many wonderful surprises. This thought gives me tremendous peace of mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
I have no idea what this means. Sorry. If it involves a lecture telling me I'm wrong...... save it. I don't subject myself to finger shaking from people who don't respect MY beliefs.
Here's what I believe: God loves us more than we can comprehend. I believe God reunites us, in Heaven, with those we've loved while on this Earth. I believe love is eternal and cannot die.
1 Corinthians 13:13
"All you need is love." - John Lennon
It is even better than that, my sisters . . . absolutely everything you have ever held in love within your consciousness will be with you. It can never be taken away from you. I expect to be mobbed by my beloved pets as well as friends and family. The other aspect is that our love will be joined by the love of everyone. The collective joy is impossible to imagine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn
I suspect our differences come from how we view the Bible. I don't share your (apparent) belief that the Bible is the one and only source of knowledge about God and Heaven. I believe it is a source. One of many. Not all of them are written and they are not confined to Christianity.
Twin and those like him do NOT believe the New Covenant so they continue to operate under the Old associated with the OT and the schoolmaster stage of human evolution. They blindly accept and follow the words "written in ink" and apply none of the standards and values Jesus taught to the material in the bible. They unconditionally accept that whatever is in there . . . no matter how it contradicts the God and values Jesus revealed . . . is to be accepted, period. They believe that the only standard is "might makes right." So whatever our ignorant ancestors thought God did or wanted has to be accepted as Good no matter how Evil it appears to us applying Christ's standards and values of love and acceptance. We who accept the New Covenant know that God has "written in our hearts" and Christ abides with us as the Comforter to guide us to the truth. We trust our hearts in "love of God and each other." Here is a reminder.
The New Covenant:
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Well I hope all who I loved on earth will be in heaven, heck I hope I am in heaven. But not all will go to heaven. Jesus said so Himself and he could not lie which is a sin.
I have read we will be so happy in heaven we will forget about those who did not make it. God will wipe away every tear so he would let us forget what would make us sad. We cannot be sad in heaven anyway.
Twin and those like him do NOT believe the New Covenant so they continue to operate under the Old associated with the OT and the schoolmaster stage of human evolution. They blindly accept and follow the words "written in ink" The New Covenant:
Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
So what's left to be said other than you're no less guilty of trying to substantiate intellectually with a straight face by selectively quoting certain verses as being the truth to the exclusion of others not being on the same level of truthfulness or not at all truthful ... yet quoting the same veiled Neanderthals writers in other areas.
You think you're exempt from the schoolmaster stage of human evolution... ???
You, who dare to "point out the schoolmaster stage of human evolution" of others, that we blindly accept and follow the words "written in ink" ... only to blindly accept and follow the words "written in ink" from the same veiled Neanderthals ??
No Mystic ... you want it both ways. Sorry but your veiled view of God is very ancient and primitive and is from the same Neanderthal writers that you find so conveniently to quote.
The same veiled Neanderthal wrote scriptures that you only blindly accept which implies "Jesus loves me this I know ... and that is all I want to know" are the same Neanderthal writers whom you detest when it goes beyond the god of mysticism.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
