When did christendom get a pope? (sinners, atheist, communion, Vatican)
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What is all this haggling try to prove? I got lost many pages ago. Does anyone know what the bottom line is and can tell us in simple terms what it is?
Janelle:
Forgive them------for they do not know what they are doing
The entire argument against Peter is based on the fact that Peter did not move to the vatican.
This has got to be the weakest argument in the world to deflect the primacy of Peter among the disciples and the fact that Jesus favored Peter by giving him the keys.
It is really laughable that they cling to such a weak argument.
Nevertheless Peter wrote from Babylon which was the hidden key word for Pagan Rome when it persecuted Christians. Also known as the ***** of babylon.
Last edited by Julian658; 03-17-2014 at 01:56 PM..
No such primacy, succession, etc. is mentioned in scripture thus it is simply a claim of authority by those who want it to be true.
Peter is the most prominent disciple of Jesus. To deny that requires some serious "denial" of the gospels or worst "serious misunderstanding".
Your ignorance of scripture is abysmal.
Quote:
2 Timothy 2:2
2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men[a] who will be able to teach others also.
Anyone with a rudimentary bible knowledge knows Paul tutored Tim.
Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.
Anyone knows Paul spend 15 days in training with Peter.
Anyone knows that Peter trained Mark who wrote the Gospel.
Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of John.
This concept that the apostles never transmitted their knowledge and ways by Oral Tradition and Apostolic Succession is misinformation by the Sola Scriptura folks that do not understand thet THERE WAS NO CANON OF THE NT during those days.
This concept that the apostles never transmitted their knowledge and ways by Oral Tradition and Apostolic Succession is misinformation by the Sola Scriptura folks that do not understand thet THERE WAS NO CANON OF THE NT during those days.
Wow!!
Of course there wasn't any cannon of the NT....that's why Christ and His followers taught/quoted from the Scriptures....the Old Testament.
Of course there wasn't any cannon of the NT....that's why Christ and His followers taught/quoted from the Scriptures....the Old Testament.
Weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know that. The early Christians spread Christianity by word of mouth. people knew about the Jesusu before the gospels were published many years later.
Paul and Peter were heroes as soon as they were martyred together in Rome.
Mostly, Jenelle, these discussion are rooted in this: some people are just hide-bound determined to tell you, and every other Catholic, that the position of Pope is not Biblical, and Popes are not to be listened to for that reason.
IMHO.
Thank you. Best response. Simple and to the point. A+ I can't rep you again so will do it here.
Peter is the most prominent disciple of Jesus. To deny that requires some serious "denial" of the gospels or worst "serious misunderstanding".
Your ignorance of scripture is abysmal.
Anyone with a rudimentary bible knowledge knows Paul tutored Tim.
Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.
Anyone knows Paul spend 15 days in training with Peter.
Anyone knows that Peter trained Mark who wrote the Gospel.
Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of John.
This concept that the apostles never transmitted their knowledge and ways by Oral Tradition and Apostolic Succession is misinformation by the Sola Scriptura folks that do not understand thet THERE WAS NO CANON OF THE NT during those days.
Wow!!
Julian----do you really think they are reading what you post? Kinda like beating a dead horse isn't it? Sigh.
All the ancient records of the Roman bishops which have been handed down to us by St. Irenaeus, Julius Africanus, St. Hippolytus, Eusebius, also the Liberian catalogue of 354, place the name of Linus directly after that of the Prince of the Apostles, St. Peter. These records are traced back to a list of the Roman bishops which existed in the time of Pope Eleutherus (about 174-189), when Irenaeus wrote his book "Adversus haereses". As opposed to this testimony, we cannot accept as more reliable Tertullian's assertion, which unquestionably places St. Clement (De praescriptione, xxii) after the Apostle Peter, as was also done later by other Latin scholars (Jerome, Illustrious Men 15). The Roman list in Irenaeus has undoubtedly greater claims to historical authority. This author claims that Pope Linus is the Linus mentioned by St. Paul in his 2 Timothy 4:21. The passage by Irenaeus (Against Heresies III.3.3) reads:
After the Holy Apostles (Peter and Paul) had founded and set the Church in order (in Rome) they gave over the exercise of the episcopal office to Linus. The same Linus is mentioned by St. Paul in his Epistle to Timothy. His successor was Anacletus.
Peters supremacy is based on the gospels and the selection by Jesus in Matthew 16:15-19. Whether Peter lived in Rome or not is moot.
In fact, for years the Pope was in France and not Rome.
Here is Peter writing from Rome:
1 Peter 5:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
In 1 Peter 5:13 Babylon is designated as the place from which that Epistle was written, but this has traditionally been interpreted as an example of the figurative sense of "Babylon", as a metaphor for Rome. Peter is believed to have spent the last years of his life in Rome.
"Babylon" is an allegory of the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians.
Peter was martyred in Rome.
But, lets assume Peter never went to rome. That does not negate the fact that he was the leader of the apostles and that Jesus gave Peter the KEYS.
Those Popes in France were known as the Anti-Popes...
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