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None of those have the slightest impact on my belief in God nor in my desire to follow Christ's instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when I don't.
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
That was not my question. I didn't ask about impact.
I asked about the rationale of specific events described in the Bible about this Christ that you say you follow. His resurrection... His ascension... His virgin birth... do you believe these events took place? If yes - then why believe these, and poo-poo the Red Sea event?
But impact is the ONLY thing that matters. Those who follow Christ's instructions to His disciples to "love god and each other" daily and repent when they don't are Christians . . . regardless what they believe about ANY of the Bible stories! They follow because they believe Jesus revealed the TRUE NATURE of God and could care less what our ignorant, superstitious ancestors believed ABOUT God. They believe God IS agape love and seek to emulate Jesus as much as possible to gain the benefit of His perfection for their imperfections. EVERYTHING else is human vanity and hubris having NO IMPACT on our fates.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
And the point remains that the book is not written BY God, and does not have to be accurate in all respects (especially perceptions about God that vary widely) in order to gain spiritual insight.
Amen. God wrote NOTHING in the Bible. He inspired men to write things using their own knowledge, understanding, cultural biases, superstitions and barbaric beliefs about a vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices. They automatically believed that EVERYTHING that happened was done by or ordered by God, period. They took no responsibility even for their own decisions and actions.
So you don't believe the events in the Bible happened as they are described.
Do you believe Christ actually rose physically from the dead? Do you believe Mary was a virgin when she was impregnated with Christ? Not some spiritual reference - but really actually happened? A simple yes or no would be sufficient... don't need an elaborate long answer.
Oh good grief, the "virgin prophecy" thing again!!
ANY Jewish scholar, even the unreputable ones, will tell you that the Jewish word, ALMAH
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a young maiden [ALMA] shall conceive, and bear a son,
And call his name Immanuel.
is translated "maiden" [of marriageable age] not "virgin". The early church leaders were trying to promote this myth of the virgin birth to make it more in line with the already-familiar myths of the virgin births of Mithra and Horus so as to make the Christian nativity more acceptable to the pagans they were trying to convert.
Whether Mary was immaculately impregnated or not is not the issue; maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. The issue is that the translators, to promote the virgin birth dogma, seized upon the word "maiden" and turned it into "virgin" on the hypothesis that most "maidens" of marriageable age were expected to be virgins, yet the two do not necessarily co-relate, as fathers whose daughters get pregnant at 14 know perfectly well their daughters are not necessarily virgins at the time they give birth (or before they get pregnant, for that matter )
Additionally, to perfectly fulfill the prophecy why didn't mary and Joseph name Jesus "Immanuel" as the prophecy directed them to? Apparently Mary and Joseph didn't read the Isaiah scroll carefully enough.
So I was reading through a comment thread on another media forum...I came across this comment. Just interested in feedback and an appropiate response....I did actually type this out and didn't copy and past it so I hope this comment won't be reported for violating terms.
So here it goes
The bible has been proven wrong on every extraordinary and supernatural claim that can be tested. For example, we know it got the age of the earth wrong, the contents of the sky, the motion of the planet, the origin of life and on. we also now knowthat there was no flood, no Jews in Egypt to build the pyramids, no mass exodus, not even the Sea of Galilee is real, It's actually a calm lake called Lake Tiberius. These are facts. You're free to believe it if you want, but sayign the bible is substantiated more than any other ancient text is one of the most ignorant things I've read on the internet.
Well, interestingly, there is evidence that an undersea volcano in the Med could have caused all of the Mosaic plagues of Egypt, and that a similar recent underwater volcano in Africa has done the same thing--including the "death of the firstborn" event.
But all that is beside the point.
The Bible is reliable for what it claims reliability for:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness -- 2 Timothy
The Bible does not make any claim to be a textbook of astronomy or geology or archeology or physics. It is a textbook in righteousness--a manual for a specific framework of moral philosophy. To that end--the only end it claims--it is reliable.
Now, if you ask me if I believe in God because of the Bible, I would say, "No."
God directs me to the Bible, the Bible does not direct me to God. I believe the Bible because I believe God.
Dear jc,
Who asked you to "have FAITH in what was written by God through the 40 men that physically wrote the material through their own testimony"? I thought God and Yeshua had asked his people to keep his Commandments". (Mt 19:17)
I think Yeshua wrote in Mt 7:24 to heed "his" testimony, and to do to others as you would want them to do unto you, as a summation of the "Law and the Prophets". (Mt 7:12) Per the testimony of one of your 40 men, whomever wrote Luke, he was not a witness to anything, and he didn't receive his information from God, but from various unrevealed sources. This kind of flies in the face of the testimony of Yeshua (Mt 18:16), Scripture (Dt 19:10), and even from the mouth of the self proclaimed prophet Paul (Cor 13:1). Yeshua also wrote to leave the tares among the wheat (Mt 13:30). Can you point out the tares and how you came by your analysis, or does Yeshua provide the measuring stick? (Mt 7:20) Who determined what is Scripture and what is not for you, and when was this determination set? Is it the same as referenced to by Yeshua?
And what defines "Christianity", and who set that standard? Is that the same standard set for those who are sons of God (1 John 3:9), or is it different? What are the "Christian" articles of faith, and by what body determined their prominence?
And since when was heeding the Commandments of God a sin? (Gen 1:27,"..be fruitful and multiply...")
Regarding the blue... Hebrews 11 states that it is impossible to please God without faith. That includes God using these men who actually wrote the Bible.
Regarding the red... Christ sets the standard. Christianity technically is non-existent as a "religion". It's the relationship with God and Jesus Christ that matters.
John 17:3 - This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Regarding the blue... Hebrews 11 states that it is impossible to please God without faith. That includes God using these men who actually wrote the Bible.
Regarding the red... Christ sets the standard. Christianity technically is non-existent as a "religion". It's the relationship with God and Jesus Christ that matters.
John 17:3 - This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Love is greater than faith; and without love you know nothing.
Rob, sooner or later you have to wake up and face the facts:
The Exodus as described in the Bible just plain could not have happened because of the sheer logistics of leading two million people across the Sinai and then having them wander around out there for 40 years. Do you have any inkling how much rubbish and debris two million people would leave behind over a 40-year period and yet modern archaeologists have not been able to come up with the slightest shred of evidence that even a small band of a few thousand Hebrews, let alone TWO MILLION were anywhere near the Sinai. Plus the fact that the entire region including Canaan were heavily garrisoned by Egyptian armies so Moses and 2 million Hebrews would have been regularly running into checkpoints all along their journey. Plus the fact there is no Biblical record they ever warred against the Egyptians who owned Canaan as part of their empire, or the Philistines, who we know now because of recent archeological digs occupied a large part of Canaan in the northern part.
Facts:
Facts:
Facts:
This large a departure of people from Egypt would have crashed the economy of the Egyptian emire the next day, yet records show not only NO departure of such a large number of people from Egypt any any time during this period, but that the Egyptian economy flourished all through this time.
Facts:
I could go on and on piling archeological evidence upon evidence that Exodus just plain never happened as it is recorded in the Bible and Fundamentalists would just close their eyes and ears and say, "Yes, it happened exactly as described." I am aware of this salient fact, so I write all this for the lurkers out there who want the truth and not the fictions written by Jewish scribes some thousand years after the time all this is alleged to have taken place.
OK - you choose to put your faith in scientists and archeologists.
Do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you believe in the resurrection of Christ? ...The Ascension of Christ? ...The Virgin Birth of Christ?
But impact is the ONLY thing that matters. Those who follow Christ's instructions to His disciples to "love god and each other" daily and repent when they don't are Christians . . . regardless what they believe about ANY of the Bible stories! They follow because they believe Jesus revealed the TRUE NATURE of God and could care less what our ignorant, superstitious ancestors believed ABOUT God. They believe God IS agape love and seek to emulate Jesus as much as possible to gain the benefit of His perfection for their imperfections. EVERYTHING else is human vanity and hubris having NO IMPACT on our fates.
Impact is NOT of primary importance. It is WHO you know... or more importantly, who Jesus Christ knows.
Jesus stated what eternal life is in John 17:3. It is about who you know. If you know God, and His Son - and you understand Their character - then you will believe what He produced in the Bible thru the authors.
You still never answered about the rationale of the resurrection, ascension, and virgin birth. The Red Sea event has been discussed and considered irrational by most here. If you consider yourself a Christian - do you believe that Christ's resurrection, ascension, and virgin birth took place? ...and how does that fit with rational thinking?
The holy spirit, the fruit of which includes goodness, righteousness and truth, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self-control, etc. is alive and well and active in many people whom you would deem an unbeliever. Every time one of us unbelievers discerns good from bad, right from wrong, and truth from error in your bible (or anywhere) you can see that spirit in action.
Tell me what spirit an unbeliever has and how he can discern truth from error in the bible? You can discern good from bad, I agree, but you are far from what the bible calls good and bad, and God does not like, when you call good evil and evil good.
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