Where is the rapture in the Bible? (crucified, Revelation, believe)
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When we remember that the Secret Rapture theory was virtually unheard of and untaught until around 1830, it is essential to examine its origins first. Such a teaching was unknown to the early Church Fathers e.g. Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian, who were convinced that the Christian Church would pass through great tribulation at the hands of the antichrist system before the return of the Lord. Furthermore the Rapture theory was not taught by the great stalwarts of the Reformed Faith - Huss, Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Cranmer or even by the Wesley brothers in the 18th Century. Whence came this teaching therefore and where did this novel. idea arise?
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The reason it was "unheard of" before 1830 is because the idea is complete nonsense. It's not biblical in the least, perverts the scriptures and is heresy in the first degree.
People, as shown in post #4, this is the rapture - the harpazo - the catching up of the church.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpagēsometha; harpazó - caught up) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
***** While the word 'rapture' is not found in the Bible, but is a technical theological term, the event which we call the 'rapture' is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In verse 17 the Greek word Harpazó is translated into the Latin as 'rapturo' from which we get the term 'rapture'.
It is taught plain as day in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. It is Scripture. It is Biblical. To those of you who can't understand that, or insist on ignoring that fact, and insist on calling it a false doctrine invented by Darby or something else, there is really nothing more to say to you and I am not going to waste my time arguing about it with you.
To the original poster of this thread, I hope you will take the time to go into the resources I provided in post #4.
People, as shown in post #4, this is the rapture - the harpazo - the catching up of the church.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpagēsometha; harpazó - caught up) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
***** While the word 'rapture' is not found in the Bible, but is a technical theological term, the event which we call the 'rapture' is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In verse 17 the Greek word Harpazó is translated into the Latin as 'rapturo' from which we get the term 'rapture'.
It is taught plain as day in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. It is Scripture. It is Biblical. To those of you who can't understand that, or insist on ignoring that fact, and insist on calling it a false doctrine invented by Darby or something else, there is really nothing more to say to you and I am not going to waste my time arguing about it with you.
To the original poster of this thread, I hope you will take the time to go into the resources I provided in post #4.
There are a few questions for rapture believers.
Quote:
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpagēsometha; harpazó - caught up) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Shall we always be with the Lord in the clouds or in the air? Does it sound right? Have we not understood this scripture carnally? Do you imagine a physical trumpet? Hmm!
Where is the air? (only in the clouds? How about the earth?)
Must "caught up" be physical? When Paul was "caught up" to the 3rd heaven was it physical?
Then the bigger question is this:
Why should God be afraid of the devil that he has to rapture his children so that they do not face tribulation?
Why create man on the earth?
Why the promises that the righteous shall inherit the earth?
The Rapture doctrine: was it ever taught by Christ? Please tell us where? Was it taught by the Prophets?
People, as shown in post #4, this is the rapture - the harpazo - the catching up of the church.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpagēsometha; harpazó - caught up) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
***** While the word 'rapture' is not found in the Bible, but is a technical theological term, the event which we call the 'rapture' is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. In verse 17 the Greek word Harpazó is translated into the Latin as 'rapturo' from which we get the term 'rapture'.
It is taught plain as day in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. It is Scripture. It is Biblical. To those of you who can't understand that, or insist on ignoring that fact, and insist on calling it a false doctrine invented by Darby or something else, there is really nothing more to say to you and I am not going to waste my time arguing about it with you.
To the original poster of this thread, I hope you will take the time to go into the resources I provided in post #4.
Ok, here we go:
This shows when the Rapture occurs.
From Revelation 14:
REVELATION 14:8 Angel declares that Babylon is fallen, is fallen. REVELATION 14:15-16 Christ sends his angels to gather the elect REVELATION 14:17-19 Christ sends his angels to gather the wicked
We have parallel references in Revelation 18 talking about the same thing:
REVELATION 18:21-24Babylon is fallen. (Headquarter city to the Antichrist) REVELATION 19:7-9 The marriage of the Lamb is come
The Marriage of the Lamb here occurs AFTER THE FALL OF BABYLON.
Both Revelation 14 and Revelation 18-19 show the pattern to be:
A) Babylon Falls B) Rapture occurs
Here are the Scriptures:
The Fall of Babylon
Revelation 14:8
"A second angel followed and said, "'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,' which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries"
The First Harvest (rapture reference)
Revelation 14:15-16
"And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped."
(This is the first harvest...the Rapture, which is the harvest of "the wheat" or the "gold" The second later harvest in Revelation 14: 17-19 is the harvest of "the chaff")
AND
The Fall of Babylon (reference #2)
Revelation 18:21-24
"Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.
The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your merchants were the world's important people. By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
In her was found the blood of prophets and of God's holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth."
The Marriage of the Lamb (rapture reference #2)
Revelation 19:7-8
"Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints"
Revelation tends to be confusing because of these parallel timelines, among other things. But you can see that Babylon couldn't possibly fall twice. These are parallel references referring to the same events...and the Rapture occurs AFTER THE FALL OF BABYLON, which could not possibly be Pre-Tribulational.
And remember it happens at THE LAST TRUMPET. Post Tribulational. Must we go through this again?
Since the poster above referred to the Book of Revelation, if anyone is interested, here is a 240 hour study of the Book of Revelation by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church who holds to a pre-tribulational view of the rapture and refers to it in this study.
For those of you who hold to a post tribulational view of the rapture, and with whom I have gone over the timing of the rapture relative to the Tribulation on other threads, save the posturing. I am not impressed with comments like ''Must we go through this again?'' which the poster above made. And having gone over this, I am not going to take up any more of my time going over it again with the same people. For people who can be objective, and who have an interest, refer to the studies I provided in post #4 and to the study on the Book of Revelation that I provided here.
New readers can refer to the archives and read my previous threads on the pre-tribulational rapture.
There is no scripture of The Great Multitude dying.
They are Raptured out of The Great Tribulation.
They came through it __and had to because their white robes were soiled__"loving not their own lives even unto death": those whose "names were written in the book of Life" who kept the commandments of God, and had the testimony of Jesus Christ; those who would 'not worship the image of the beast and were killed'. They overcame by word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 12:17; 13:15, (KJV)
They came through it __and had to because their white robes were soiled__"loving not their own lives even unto death": those whose "names were written in the book of Life" who kept the commandments of God, and had the testimony of Jesus Christ; those who would 'not worship the image of the beast and were killed'. They overcame by word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 12:17; 13:15, (KJV)
Now compare all that to Rev 7:14.
Yes, the words "coming out" refer to having been IN something, thus IN the tribulation.
I just checked and it seems that many of the links to the articles in this link - The Thomas Ice Collection which I posted in post #4 are no longer working. Some of them still are however.
I hear about the rapture at end of times where people are taken up and we will meet Jesus in the sky.
Where is this in the Bible?
The Rapture is not in the Bible. If it were it wouldn't have taken 1800 or so years to find it.
It is a new tradition of man.
The word Rapture is connected to the Latin word rapiemur, which appears in Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians in the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. It means to be raised up or caught up:
The dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:16–17)
Therefore, Catholics believe that those Christians who are still living at the Second Coming of Christ will be gathered together with those who have died in Christ to be forever with the Lord. Catholics do not generally use the term Rapture, nor do they believe in a Rapture that will take place some time before the Second Coming, as do many Evangelicals.
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