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I wouldn't disagree with the spirit of what people are saying. It sounds right. What then does Jesus mean when he says it would be better if Judas hadn't been born....?
The son of perdition is a pretty meaty title for anyone.
he regretted what he did. it didnt say he made amends. he tried to put the blame back on the jews, and failed. the reward of a traitor is always the same.
How did he try to put the blame back on the Jews?...
I wouldn't disagree with the spirit of what people are saying. It sounds right. What then does Jesus mean when he says it would be better if Judas hadn't been born....?
The son of perdition is a pretty meaty title for anyone.
To be honest, I feel sorry for Judas. He was destined to hand the son of God over to be destroyed. Is that something you would want over your head? Did Judas really have any choice in the matter? Yes - Judas did choose to do the things he did, but could it have gone down any other way? I don't think God leaves things to chance. And it was God's plan of the salvation of the world.
Regarding the "son of perdition" - its debatable who that is referring to. I believe it refers to all of us - sitting in the temple of God (our own self - know ye not that ye are the temple of God) - pretending that we are a "god". Anyway that's a different topic probably.
There is also debate on what "it would be better if he hadn't been born" means exactly. Its been discussed in other threads in the past here.
he regretted what he did. it didnt say he made amends. he tried to put the blame back on the jews, and failed. the reward of a traitor is always the same.
Joseph's brothers didn't have free will. They all have wills . . . wills of the flesh (Eph.2:3) which flesh is at enmity to God and not able to please Him (Romans 8:8). God, in His sovereignty, had to make sure Joseph got to Egypt the way he did. The brothers' actions were necessary for their salvation, unbeknownst to them, to save them. Likewise the actions of those who crucified Jesus were necessary for their salvation. "1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." Joseph's brothers were trying to keep Joseph's dreams from coming to reality. Had they known that selling Joseph into Egypt to fulfill his dreams they would not have giving him up as well.
God uses our rebellion as a means of our salvation. He is so wise, who can fathom the depths, widths and heights of His wisdom?
Great posts Eusebius. The foreshadowing between Joseph's brothers/Judas and Joseph/Jesus is very interesting.
God is indeed very wise (obviously!) - He brings us down to the depths so He can save us despite ourselves. Very humbling and indeed this is how we will all learn humility.
I wouldn't disagree with the spirit of what people are saying. It sounds right. What then does Jesus mean when he says it would be better if Judas hadn't been born....?
The son of perdition is a pretty meaty title for anyone.
Maybe the reference is to Yeshua Himself...It would have been better for the Son of Man had Judas not been born...
Agreed. If we look at the entirety of what happened, we see it:
- Judas repented - changed his mind
- Judas acknowledged what he did was a sin
- Judas refused the silver and threw it back
At this point he probably thought the only remaining restitution was to end his own life.
Interesting point on the 30 pieces of silver: at that time the wage of a Roman soldier was 1/10th of an ounce of silver. This was the value of a day of hard labor. So if this was 30 ounces of silver, it could be equivalent to 300 days wage, or approximately a year's salary. Another study I read said 30 pieces of silver was probably about 4 months of wages for a skilled laborer. This was no small payment that Judas received for his deed.
Interesting point Richard - thanks for bringing that up.
I bring it up also to point out that in one of the Gospels it states that the 11 were gathered together in a room when Yeshua appeared and told them to look at His wounds...In another Gospel it details the same thing but doesn't afore mention the 11, just the disciples were gathered together in a room when Yeshua appeared and said look at My wounds, however, it is added here that Thomas was absent at that time, which the other Gospel doesn't mention, so it seems, if there were 11 gathered in that room, and Thomas was absent at the appearance of Yeshua, wouldn't that mean that Judas was among them?...
I bring it up also to point out that in one of the Gospels it states that the 11 were gathered together in a room when Yeshua appeared and told them to look at His wounds...In another Gospel it details the same thing but doesn't afore mention the 11, just the disciples were gathered together in a room when Yeshua appeared and said look at My wounds, however, it is added here that Thomas was absent at that time, which the other Gospel doesn't mention, so it seems, if there were 11 gathered in that room, and Thomas was absent at the appearance of Yeshua, wouldn't that mean that Judas was among them?...
Hmmm, but that would mean... Judas was still alive when Jesus returned to the disciples? Interesting - I don't know what to make of that one...
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