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I think there are some missing pieces in your outline which might help you find your way back once you have them in place.
And what pieces are those?
Is the message of Jesus that only the Catholic Church, the descendent of the medieval absolutely corrupt Roman Church, is the ONLY source of the message of Jesus?
Is it ALL about the papacy? Is there no place for anything else?
Sorry the entire fiction of apostolic succession is a creation of corrupt power-seeking men who even tried to bolster it by claiming infallibility . . . something no human being is capable of under ANY circumstances. It worked while the population remained ignorant and oppressed. How it has survived into the 21st century is a mystery of human perversity. Why any enlightened intellect would ascribe to it is a complete enigma.
Excellent point. I also have to wonder since there was a Bishop in Rome before Peter went to Rome (if he ever actually visited there) how did Peter become before him or them.
I suppose the constant copy and paste from other forums and web-sites caught up with him. You would think people would know how easy it is to check their paste and find the source.
The thing that's always puzzled me. IF Peter had supremacy over all the others, why is it he only wrote 2 books of the NT and Paul wrote 13?
Because dispensation changed and Peter is one of the twelve for the dispensation that has been placed on hold while the dispensation of the Grace of God is in effect that was given through Paul. Hence Paul is who we need to look to for our instructions for today.
Because dispensation changed and Peter is one of the twelve for the dispensation that has been placed on hold while the dispensation of the Grace of God is in effect that was given through Paul. Hence Paul is who we need to look to for our instructions for today.
I see. Well, I was referring to the RCC's teaching of Peter having supremacy and or being the first pope. Or in other words IF Peter was either of these things...why wouldn't it have been the other way around? Peter 13 and Paul only 2?
I see. Well, I was referring to the RCC's teaching of Peter having supremacy and or being the first pope. Or in other words IF Peter was either of these things...why wouldn't it have been the other way around? Peter 13 and Paul only 2?
Simply because the fabricated history used is not true.
janelle144[/b]]He may have been but he lived for 20 years in Rome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Historical Proof please, not self serving tradition?
The Bible does not say he was, so who does that was there and is reasonably objective? What 1st century writer?
Imagine the acrobatics Peter would have needed to go through in order to be in Rome for those 20 years.
After the resurrection and assention of Christ, Peter is involved in the following:
Peter takes the lead at a meeting to replace Judas Iscariot. Matthias becomes an apostle. – Acts 1:16-26
On the day of Pentecost and filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, Peter gives a message to the people in Jerusalem with everyone hearing him in their own native language. – Acts 2:14-36
John and Peter, encounter a man who had never walked in his entire life. Peter heals him and he walks. – Acts 3:6-8
The Sadducees, take John and Peter into custody. – Acts 4:3
Peter, John with him, are told by the Sadducees to stop telling people about Jesus. – Acts 4:18
Peter confronts a husband and wife regarding property they lied about and both of them die. – Acts 5:3-9
Peter and John are sent to Samaria to teach them about Christ. – Acts 8:14
Peter travels to different places to teach and preach of Jesus Christ. During this time, he visited Lydda, a city in Judea. – Acts 9:32
Peter brings a little girl back to life by the power of God. – Acts 9:40
A Roman centurion named Cornelius, summons Peter to his house in Caesarea (a coastal city near Galilee). At the time, Peter was staying in Joppa. – Acts 10:1-6
Peter realizes that God intends for the gospel to go to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. – Acts 10:34
Cornelius becomes the first Gentile we know of to be taught the good news of Christ by Peter. – Acts 10:37-48
Jewish believers in Jerusalem argue with Peter for being in the company of non-Jews. – Acts 11:1-3
James, the brother of John, is killed by order of King Herod. – Acts 12:1-2
Herod realizes that his action has made him popular with the Jews, so he has Peter arrested and thrown in prison. – Acts 12:3
An angel frees Peter from the prison. – Acts 12:7-8
Sometime later, Paul confronts Peter’s behavior when he is in the presence of non-Jewish believers and Jewish believers. – Galatians 2:11
The Book of Acts was probably never intended to be a complete history of the apostles, but it's the only history we've got today. In any case, after Act 12 Luke (the writer) has nothing more to say about Peter. Still, it offers great insights into Peter's tendencies and habits. Peter seems to have confined the whole of his recorded ministry to Judea, Palestine and areas immediately adjoining them. We do have strong evidence of him arriving and living in Antioch. There is even some evidence that he has a wife and family in Antioch. It is most likely that Peter was arrested in Antioch prior to being sent, imprisoned and executed in Rome. This means that sometime after Acts isn't talking about him, Peter ventures farther away from Judea and Galilee than ever before, but he still remains consistent to his pattern: Antioch ain't that all that far from Galilee and Judea. It's also not far from Tarsus where Saul/Paul grew up.
The RCC wants us all to believe that Peter was living in Rome for the bulk of the time after Acts stops talking about him. It really doesn't seem to fit his tendency to stay close to home though. Leaving the Eastern Empire where sizable Jewish communities are commonplace and heading way out to the distant and significantly less populated Western Empire ... and then staying there for 20 years ... and nobody even mentions it in the entire NT. And no contemporary non-Christian source can substantiate this claim either.
A move of that distance would be so unusual for Peter, it is astounding that NT writer mentions it. After all, there is a lot said about Paul going to, arriving at and preaching in Rome. There is also a lot written about his arrival in Rome by contemporary non-Christian sources. But what about Peter's arrival? Nothing. Crickets. Nadda. Even Paul who would have been in Rome at the same time as Peter during his writings from Rome never says a single word that make any connection between Peter and Rome. So what is the basis for believing that Peter was ever in Rome at all? Historians like Tertullian (lived 160 AD to 220 AD), Origen (lived 182 AD to 254 AD) lived a long time after Peter. If some very early pro-Rome Christian invented the tradition that Peter was in Rome, these later writers might have believed it, since nobody seemed to be saying that Peter was anywhere else. The reality is, Peter really could have been anywhere. The fact that Paul never mentions Peter being in Rome nor draws any connection between Peter and Rome while Paul is actually in Rome -- that fact just makes Rome the absolutely least like place of all possibilities.
You guys insist there are no lies in the RCC. So show me without any RCC literature, traditions, and/or RCC teachings, Proof that Mary was ever virgin, born without sin, assumed into heaven body and soul, and is co-redemptive.
No one up to answering this one?
Gabriel?
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...that was my point.
