Christ is our savior--- or is He? (Gospel, hell, myth)
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Hi everyone Kind of a provocative title isn't it? Yes Jesus is our savior but do most Christians feel that way really? I know Christ die for us and I mean completely died, body and spirit. If you press many Christians that will say that His body died but His spirit did not, it went somewhere and did something. So the savior is not Christ but his dead body? I don't think so. Jesus died for us. He emptied himself and came down as a human so He could die. If all He wanted to do was occupy a flesh body for a while He would not need to empty himself of his heavenly glory but if He was to die as we do He had to.
That means that when we die we die body and spirit. If we did not why oh why would we need to be resurrected? When Jesus died He was resurrected to shows us what God was going to do for us. As it says in 1 Timothy 6:16 that only Jesus, (Who had been resurrected) has immortality at this time. We will all die and than we will be resurrected to face Judgment. After judgment we will repent and then we will have immortality.
The immortal spirit is a myth. The scriptures say that the dead know nothing. The is no knowledge in the grave not even the knowledge of God. If we already are immoral why would we need to be resurrected(which means to be risen from the dead) if we do not really die? For those that say well our old body will be resurrected, why? flesh can not enter spiritual heaven. When we are resurrected we will be given a spiritual body. All the people who have die are still dead and will be resurrected when Jesus returns and resurrects his elect and then the rest of mankind. But this is good news because the dead know nothing they don't know they are dead. From their point of view they will die and no matter how long it has been they will be in front of Jesus.
Hi everyone Kind of a provocative title isn't it? Yes Jesus is our savior but do most Christians feel that way really? I know Christ die for us and I mean completely died, body and spirit. If you press many Christians that will say that His body died but His spirit did not, it went somewhere and did something. So the savior is not Christ but his dead body? I don't think so. Jesus died for us. He emptied himself and came down as a human so He could die. If all He wanted to do was occupy a flesh body for a while He would not need to empty himself of his heavenly glory but if He was to die as we do He had to.
That means that when we die we die body and spirit. If we did not why oh why would we need to be resurrected? When Jesus died He was resurrected to shows us what God was going to do for us. As it says in 1 Timothy 6:16 that only Jesus, (Who had been resurrected) has immortality at this time. We will all die and than we will be resurrected to face Judgment. After judgment we will repent and then we will have immortality.
The immortal spirit is a myth. The scriptures say that the dead know nothing. The is no knowledge in the grave not even the knowledge of God. If we already are immoral why would we need to be resurrected(which means to be risen from the dead) if we do not really die? For those that say well our old body will be resurrected, why? flesh can not enter spiritual heaven. When we are resurrected we will be given a spiritual body. All the people who have die are still dead and will be resurrected when Jesus returns and resurrects his elect and then the rest of mankind. But this is good news because the dead know nothing they don't know they are dead. From their point of view they will die and no matter how long it has been they will be in front of Jesus.
Comments anyone?
GINOLJC, I'm not saying that you're wrong, or right. if what you say is true, please answer me this. "who went and preached to the spirits in prison". (1 Peter 3:19). was it not the Son of Man who went into the heart of the earth, and not the son of God?. while his body was in the tomb, was not his spirit preaching to those spirits in prison?. and the apostle James is clear, the body without the spirit is dead. and not the other way around. is not "DEATH", a separation of the spirit from the body?.
Now when you quoted, "The scriptures say that the dead know nothing". are you speaking of the soul or the spirit. please read Romans 14:9 and please tell me what "revived"?.
GINOLJC, I'm not saying that you're wrong, or right. if what you say is true, please answer me this. "who went and preached to the spirits in prison". (1 Peter 3:19). was it not the Son of Man who went into the heart of the earth, and not the son of God?. while his body was in the tomb, was not his spirit preaching to those spirits in prison?. and the apostle James is clear, the body without the spirit is dead. and not the other way around. is not "DEATH", a separation of the spirit from the body?.
Now when you quoted, "The scriptures say that the dead know nothing". are you speaking of the soul or the spirit. please read Romans 14:9 and please tell me what "revived"?.
be blessed.
Yes. We are told we must be "born again" and that Flesh is born of Flesh and Spirit is born of Spirit. Our Spirit is resurrected (born again). When we die we are "born again" as Spirit . . . as Jesus was. BUT our ancient ancestors were carnal and extremely terrified of Spirits . . . that was why they were given "carnal "milk" instead of "solid food" in the Gospel. That is also why Jesus gave the illusion of a physical body to His disciples. (No physical body goes through walls or closed doors.) He even created the illusion of touching His body and even of eating with them . . . all to mitigate their extreme fear of Spirits.
GINOLJC, I'm not saying that you're wrong, or right. if what you say is true, please answer me this. "who went and preached to the spirits in prison". (1 Peter 3:19). was it not the Son of Man who went into the heart of the earth, and not the son of God?. while his body was in the tomb, was not his spirit preaching to those spirits in prison?. and the apostle James is clear, the body without the spirit is dead. and not the other way around. is not "DEATH", a separation of the spirit from the body?.
Now when you quoted, "The scriptures say that the dead know nothing". are you speaking of the soul or the spirit. please read Romans 14:9 and please tell me what "revived"?.
be blessed.
Dear 101c, if you look really closely at 1 Peter 3:19 you will kindly note that after Christ was vivified or made alive it was then that He went to the spirits (not humans) in prison. There are the the spirit angels in the caverns of Tartarus Christ most likely went to:
2Pe_2:4 For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;"
You are correct that if the spirit is separated from the body that death ensues.
As to Romans 14:9 Christ is to be Lord of all who have died and all the living. He will be Lord of lords and King of kings.
Dear 101c, if you look really closely at 1 Peter 3:19 you will kindly note that after Christ was vivified or made alive it was then that He went to the spirits (not humans) in prison. There are the the spirit angels in the caverns of Tartarus Christ most likely went to:
2Pe_2:4 For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;"
You are correct that if the spirit is separated from the body that death ensues.
As to Romans 14:9 Christ is to be Lord of all who have died and all the living. He will be Lord of lords and King of kings.
I'm sorry, but I must have to disagree with you here, this was before his resurrection. is there any scripture stating after his resurrection that he descended into hell?.
Sure they say Jesus descended into hell after He died on the cross were it is believed that He preached to the devil and his hoards that He is usurping their authority in the earth by the judgment of the cross ...... So all authority is given to Jesus in the heaven and in the earth , and by faith in the identity of Jesus gives this authority to the body of Christ , and all who exercises this authority for all believers will have answered prayer by His grace ...... As the devil can be paralyzed by this authority of Christ by believers
GINOLJC, I'm not saying that you're wrong, or right. if what you say is true, please answer me this. "who went and preached to the spirits in prison". (1 Peter 3:19). was it not the Son of Man who went into the heart of the earth, and not the son of God?. while his body was in the tomb, was not his spirit preaching to those spirits in prison?. and the apostle James is clear, the body without the spirit is dead. and not the other way around. is not "DEATH", a separation of the spirit from the body?.
Now when you quoted, "The scriptures say that the dead know nothing". are you speaking of the soul or the spirit. please read Romans 14:9 and please tell me what "revived"?.
be blessed.
Hi Ginolic 1 Peter 3:19 and the verses before and after it are very clumsy written and hard to understand. I am sure by God's design. It talks about Jesus, After he was made alive in spirit preaching to the spirits in prison in the time of Noah which was thousands od years earlier Some believe it refers to the Angelic spirits that were thrown down to Tarsus Truth is I don't know, God has not revealed it to me yet, but in Ecc. He does say that the dead know nothing and are in sheol which is the unperceived (they perceive nothing)
Romans 14:9 said He died and rose and lived again.
Remember When God created Adam He breathed into his nostrils and Adam became alive. When we die the breath returns to God and we are no more and our body returns to dust.
Death is separation. The Bible says that when the body goes to the dust, the spirit returns to God Who gave it. Eccl. 12:7 It also speaks of sleeping in the dust, and being raised from sleep. If we separate the parts of the body correctly, we see that the Spirit doesn't die, but returns to God. The soul 'sleeps' in the sense that it is unconscious or 'turned off' until it is raised to life at one of the two resurrections.
When we die, our bodies are separated from our souls, and our souls are separated from our spirits. The body rots, the soul sleeps, and the spirit returns to God. The resurrection is for the purpose of putting us back together, and doing it in a permanent eternal manner. Those that die in the Lord, will 'in spirit' be with the Lord until the resurrection. Those spirits that were not believers will be separated from the Lord, yet they will be in the heavenly realm. Spirits don't die, they only become separated from God. At the First Resurrection, Jesus will come and those that are His will be resurrected without judgment. After this, the remaining humanity will be resurrected. Any spirits at this time that don't believe will become believers, because they will be in His presence. The believers that were not sanctified will also appear at this resurrection, and everyone will receive new bodies and their souls will be rejoined to their being. Each person will then be judged according to the works of their souls, and the amount of their works which are vanity will be burned up, and they will suffer loss, but they will be saved as through fire.
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