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Do you understand if you stick your hand on an hot stove that serves as a good thing that you will get burnt. Is it the hot stove paying you back or is it ignorance and misuse of the purpose of the hot stove?. God is not going around punishing sin and sinners, we are reaping from the flesh what we are sowing.
Careful, someone created the hot stove ...........
There is NO punishment . . . only self-imposed consequences of self-loathing, remorse and regret (weeping and gnashing of teeth) for every unrepented instance of non-agape love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
If it is not imposed by God, then it must be voluntary. What if one chooses to not punish him/herself? What happens then?
That is the thing with enlightenment . . . once it happens you cannot go back. Once a pig learns about the benefits and joy of being clean and enjoys the feeling . . . then wallowing in mud loses its appeal. He extracts himself from it because he recognizes it is just dirty and unclean . . . he can never go back to enjoying it. Have you ever either willfully or obliviously hurt someone you love irreparably? There is nothing that can be done to correct it and you feel intense remorse. Multiply that by a gazillion-fold and that is the kind of remorse the glare from God's pure love will have on our ignorance and obliviousness to the hurt inflicted by our own actions and attitudes during this life. Voluntary it will be . . . but unavoidable it will also be.
That is the thing with enlightenment . . . once it happens you cannot go back. Once a pig learns about the benefits and joy of being clean and enjoys the feeling . . . then wallowing in mud loses its appeal. He extracts himself from it because he recognizes it is just dirty and unclean . . . he can never go back to enjoying it. Have you ever either willfully or obliviously hurt someone you love irreparably? There is nothing that can be done to correct it and you feel intense remorse. Multiply that by a gazillion-fold and that is the kind of remorse the glare from God's pure love will have on our ignorance and obliviousness to the hurt inflicted by our own actions and attitudes during this life. Voluntary it will be . . . but unavoidable it will also be.
You have obviously never raised pigs. You can clean them up every day and they go right back to the mud. It is more joy to them being in the mud than being clean.
You have obviously never raised pigs. You can clean them up every day and they go right back to the mud. It is more joy to them being in the mud than being clean.
I wasn't being literal . . . just figurative. Pigs clearly do not develop atittudes about their instinctual behaviors . . . as humans can and do. I think you probably knew that, though.
Originally Posted by MysticPhD That is the thing with enlightenment . . . once it happens you cannot go back. Once a pig learns about the benefits and joy of being clean and enjoys the feeling . . . then wallowing in mud loses its appeal
You have obviously never raised pigs. You can clean them up every day and they go right back to the mud. It is more joy to them being in the mud than being clean.
that shows just how far off he is. Not only is that so fictional in human terms, it's not surprising that spiritual terms matches the same pattern.
2 Peter 2:22
Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
You have obviously never raised pigs. You can clean them up every day and they go right back to the mud. It is more joy to them being in the mud than being clean.
He is saying that every pig will choose to be clean after they die, and be saved in an after-death salvation process. Believing in 2nd chances after death removes the necessity of faith during this lifetime. It is "license to sin" steroids. Ironically the same people who promote this belief, also claim OSAS is dangerous because it's a license to sin. The glaring difference is that those people who are saved during this lifetime have the Holy Spirit with them to help and guide them while living a Christian life which removes the "license to sin" attitude. Those people who believed the universalist message about the 2nd chance see no reason to ever look to god during this lifetime, and go to their graves hoping the universalists were right.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-29-2014 at 10:09 AM..
He is saying that every pig will choose to be clean after they die, and be saved in an after-death salvation process. Believing in 2nd chances after death removes the necessity of faith during this lifetime. It is "license to sin" steroids. Ironically the same people who promote this belief, also claim OSAS is dangerous because it's a license to sin.
Well I hope that pig ends up on my smoker after it dies.
I wasn't being literal . . . just figurative. Pigs clearly do not develop atittudes about their instinctual behaviors . . . as humans can and do. I think you probably knew that, though.
I just wanted to bar-b-cue that pig.
Actually I compare salvation to eating the frozen shrimp from overseas the Wal-mart sells to eating fresh from the gulf shrimp. Once you have tasted the real thing you never will be happy with that cheap crap again.
You have obviously never raised pigs. You can clean them up every day and they go right back to the mud. It is more joy to them being in the mud than being clean.
And there are people like that.
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