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View Poll Results: Does Peter need to live in Rome to prove the Papacy?
yes 5 50.00%
no 5 50.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-04-2014, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Christ is the head of the church.
Any Catholic who knows Catholic doctrine agrees with that statement. Christ is the head of the Church. But Christ also gave authority to His apostles and the keys of the kingdom to Peter. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Because it is a silly question. NOTHING about Peter or Rome can do anything to prove the Papacy as anything other than the creation of men . . . NOT Christ.
This is why it is so illogical to argue Rome. I understand Protestant apologist think they get mileage out of this, but the point is moot. Peter living in Rome does not make the Papacy. And now you know why no one votes.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
No. There are many historical reasons for the Papacy to be based in Rome, but there's nothing theologically mandating it. The Pope could move the Vatican to Buenos Aires and it wouldn't illegitimize his authority.
The pope has no legitimate authority if one truly believes in the Bible and the scriptures therein. He can move wherever he wants, but it won't make him anything more than he is, a man playing like he is someone special.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Any Catholic who knows Catholic doctrine agrees with that statement. Christ is the head of the Church. But Christ also gave authority to His apostles and the keys of the kingdom to Peter. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Peter was never a pope. If Catholics truly believed in the Bible then they would not have confession to any priest because the one anyone should confess to is Jesus. PERIOD. I was raised Catholic and am so glad that I got away from their folly. The Papacy changed the 10 commandments to suit their needs. I could go on, but the Papacy is just man's tool, not God's.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MORebelWoman View Post
The pope has no legitimate authority if one truly believes in the Bible and the scriptures therein. He can move wherever he wants, but it won't make him anything more than he is, a man playing like he is someone special.
Exactly, there is nothing special about living in Rome. There was a time when the popes lived in France.

So why do so many Evangelicals use Rome to try to deny the papacy? They base their entire argument on Rome.

One would think they believe Peter needs to be a Roman resident to prove the Papacy. They forget the fact that the Vatican did not exist at the time of Jesus.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sumter, SC
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No. Because Peter is dead.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Sumter, SC
2,169 posts, read 3,140,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MORebelWoman View Post
Peter was never a pope. If Catholics truly believed in the Bible then they would not have confession to any priest because the one anyone should confess to is Jesus. PERIOD. I was raised Catholic and am so glad that I got away from their folly. The Papacy changed the 10 commandments to suit their needs. I could go on, but the Papacy is just man's tool, not God's.
When did the 10 Commandments change? What did I miss? Did I fall asleep or something?
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam4USC View Post
When did the 10 Commandments change? What did I miss? Did I fall asleep or something?
Here are the Catholic 10 Commandments:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods


Here are the 10 Commandments that are actually in the Bible (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV):

1 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

3 "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6 "You shall not murder.

7 "You shall not commit adultery.

8 "You shall not steal.

9 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."

As you can see the Catholic Papacy decided to take out the commandment about idols. hmmm We all know why they did that since that is what the Catholic Papacy teach their followers to do, worship idols. Anyway, they then made the 4th commandment into the third for them and made the tenth commandment into two so they would have ten commandments.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Because it is a silly question. NOTHING about Peter or Rome can do anything to prove the Papacy as anything other than the creation of men . . . NOT Christ.

I usually agree with you. It is a silly question, but important because protestant apologists always use the Rome angle. They say----- if Peter did not live in Rome then there is no papacy. They unknowingly imply that the papacy is dependent on Peter living in Rome--------and that is incorrect.

Saint Peter was selected by Jesus above all others before and after the resurrection. The prominence of Peter and Apostolic Succession is the basis of the papacy.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:24 PM
 
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And here are the commandments according to the Wycliffe Bible, which was written in the 1380s A.D.

Exodus

20 And the Lord spake all these words,

2 I am thy Lord God, that led thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of servage. (I am the Lord thy God, who led thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of servitude, or of slavery.)

3 Thou shalt not have alien gods before me. (Thou shalt not have foreign, or other, gods in place of me/instead of me.)

4 Thou shalt not make to thee a graven image, neither any likeness of (any)thing that is in heaven above, and that is in (the) earth beneath, neither of those things that be in waters under the earth; (Thou shalt not make a carved image for thyself, nor any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or on the earth beneath, or of those things that be in the waters under the earth

5 thou shalt not bow down to them, neither worship them; for I am thy Lord God, a strong(ly) jealous lover; I visit the wickedness of (the) fathers in (the) children into the third and fourth generation of them that hated me, (thou shalt not bow down to them, nor worship them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God; I punish the children for the wickedness of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations of those who hate me,)

6 and I do mercy into thousands, to them that love me, and keep my behests. (but I do mercy unto thousands, to those who love me, and who keep my commandments.)

7 Thou shalt not take in vain the name of thy Lord God, for the Lord shall not have him guiltless, that taketh in vain the name of his Lord God. (Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord shall not hold guiltless he who taketh the name of the Lord his God in vain.)

8 Have thou mind, that thou hallow the sabbath day; (Remember to keep the sabbath day holy, or sacred

9 in six days thou shalt work, and do all thy works; (for six days thou shalt work, and do all thy works

10 forsooth in the seventh day is the sabbath of thy Lord God; thou shalt not do any work (on that day), thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thine handmaid, thy work beast, and the comeling that is within thy gates; (but on the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord thy God; thou shalt not do any work on that day, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy male slave, and thy slave-girl, and thy work beast, and the newcomer who is within thy gates

11 for in six days God made (the) heaven(s) and (the) earth, the sea, and all things that be in those, and rested in the seventh day (and then he rested on the seventh day); therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou be long living on the land (so that thou can live a long life in the land), which thy Lord God shall give to thee.

13 Thou shalt not slay. (Thou shalt not kill.)

14 Thou shalt not do lechery.

15 Thou shalt not do theft.

16 Thou shalt not speak false witnessing against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet the house of thy neighbour, neither thou shalt desire his wife, nor his (man)servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, neither (anything of) all (the) things that be his. (Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor shalt thou desire his wife, or his slave, or his slave-girl, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything of all the things that be his.)

18 Forsooth all the people heard voices, (that is, the thunder,) and saw lamps, that is, shining lights, and the sound of a clarion, and the hill smoking; and they were afeared, and shaken with inward dread, and stood afar, (And all the people heard the thunder, and saw the lightening, and heard the sound of the trumpet, and saw the mountain smoking; and they were afraid, and shaken with inward fear, and stood afar off,)

19 and (they) said to Moses, Speak thou to us, and we shall hear; (but) the Lord speak not to us, lest peradventure we die.

20 And Moses said to the people, Do not ye dread, for God came to prove you, and that his dread should be in you, and that ye should not do sin. (And Moses said to the people, Do not ye fear/Fear not, for God came to prove you, so that his fear would be in you, and then ye shall not sin.)

21 And the people stood afar (off); and Moses nighed to the darkness, wherein God was.

22 And the Lord said furthermore to Moses, Thou shalt say these things to the sons of Israel, Ye saw that from heaven I have spoken to you; (And the Lord also said to Moses, Thou shalt say these things to the Israelites, Ye have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven

23 ye shall not make gods of silver, neither ye shall make to you gods of gold. (ye shall not make gods out of silver, or gods out of gold, to be worshipped in addition to me.)

24 Ye shall make an altar of earth to me, and ye shall offer thereon your burnt sacrifices, and peaceable sacrifices, your sheep, and oxen; in each place in which the mind of my name shall be, I shall come to thee, and I shall bless thee. (Ye shall make an altar out of earth for me, and ye shall offer on it your burnt sacrifices, and your peace offerings, your sheep, and your oxen; and in each place where I ask thee to remember my name, I shall come to thee, and I shall bless thee.)

25 That if thou shalt make an altar of stone to me, thou shalt not build it of stones hewn (And if thou make an altar out of stones for me, thou shalt not build it out of cut stones); for if thou shalt raise thy knife thereupon, or (any) other instrument wherewith blood may be shed out, it shall be polluted.

26 Thou shalt not go up by degrees to mine altar, lest thy filth(hood) be showed. (Thou shalt not go up to my altar by steps, lest thy nakedness should be shown.)
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