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When you read "take unto Mary thy wife", it's in the context of "take her AS your wife".... because they were not married yet!...and then it says "for that which is conceived in her", which is telling you that the Angel of the Lord was telling Joseph in layman's terms: "Marry her because she is pregnant with your child and that child is going to be the Messiah"
See, if Joseph was not a part of this whole thing, there would be no need for the Angel to tell him anything. Because what good would it do for the Angel to say "Hey man, you should be the Stepdaddy"...LOL
You've been mislead in your Biblical studies. sorry.
*FYI - In Hebrew culture it was forbidden to have kids out of wedlock. so Joseph married her before the rest of the Israelites saw Mary's pregnant belly and put Joseph to death for that. Because if you get a female pregnant you must be married first. that was Hebrew culture and GOD's Law
I suggest you take your own advice READ...WITH ...COMPREHENSION plus learn about the 'customs of the day.'
Quote:
When you read "take unto Mary thy wife", it's in the context of "take her AS your wife".... because they were not married yet!
According to the customs of the day there were 3 stages to the Jewish wedding: Contract, Consummation, Celebration
1. First the "ketubbah," the contract was legal and binding, and can only be dissolved with a bill of divorcement. From the signing of the contract the 'couple' was considered married, but as of yet there had been no 'consummation' involved. This is the stage that Mary/Joseph were at and that is why Mary was called his 'wife' and why Joseph was going to privately divorce her, and why he KNEW He wasn't the father of her child because he KNEW their marriage hadn't been consummated yet. [Actually this didn't happen till after Christ was born!]
2. "chuppah" or the consummation of the marriage and now in God's eyes they were 'legally' married.
3. The Celebration, the wedding feast.
Quote:
FYI - In Hebrew culture it was forbidden to have kids out of wedlock. so Joseph married her before the rest of the Israelites saw Mary's pregnant belly and put Joseph to death for that. Because if you get a female pregnant you must be married first. that was Hebrew culture and GOD's Law
FYI, a child conceived during a 'betrothal' was not considered illegitimate because the 'couple' were considered married.Or in other words, in the example of Mary/Joseph they were betrothed [by law she was his wife] at the time Mary was found to be with child. So IF the child had been Joseph's, he would have known and had no reason to divorce her. But because he KNEW their 'marriage' had not be consummated yet, he knew the child was not his.
BTW, The only time a child was considered illegitimate was if one of them was already 'married' to another person.
Again learn the customs of the day before you make outlandish remarks.
Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Here we see that Joseph's father's name was Jacob.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (*as was supposed) the son of Joseph which was the son of Heli.
*as was supposed is a legal term meaning Joseph was Heli's son-in-law. Or in other words Heli was Mary's father.
Last edited by mshipmate; 07-04-2014 at 07:35 PM..
I suggest you take your own advice READ...WITH ...COMPREHENSION plus learn about the 'customs of the day.'
According to the customs of the day there were 3 stages to the Jewish wedding: Contract, Consummation, Celebration
1. First the "ketubbah," the contract was legal and binding, and can only be dissolved with a bill of divorcement. From the signing of the contract the 'couple' was considered married, but as of yet there had been no 'consummation' involved. This is the stage that Mary/Joseph were at and that is why Mary was called his 'wife' and why Joseph was going to privately divorce her, and why he KNEW He wasn't the father of her child because he KNEW their marriage hadn't been consummated yet. [Actually this didn't happen till after Christ was born!]
2. "chuppah" or the consummation of the marriage and now in God's eyes they were 'legally' married.
3. The Celebration, the wedding feast.
FYI, a child conceived during a 'betrothal' was not considered illegitimate because the 'couple' were considered married.Or in other words, in the example of Mary/Joseph they were betrothed [by law she was his wife] at the time Mary was found to be with child. So IF the child had been Joseph's, he would have known and had no reason to divorce her. But because he KNEW their 'marriage' had not be consummated yet, he knew the child was not his.
BTW, The only time a child was considered illegitimate was if one of them was already 'married' to another person.
Again learn the customs of the day before you make outlandish remarks.
Matt. 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Here we see that Joseph's father's name was Jacob.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (*as was supposed) the son of Joseph which was the son of Heli.
*as was supposed is a legal term meaning Joseph was Heli's son-in-law. Or in other words Heli was Mary's father.
While I agrer with most all of this, however:
*16* and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.
Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost”.
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost”.
here the word “conceived”, is the same Greek word for “beget”, and “Born”.
G1080 γεννάω gennao (ghen-nah'-o) v.
1. (properly, of the father) to procreate
2. (by extension, of the mother) to conceive
3. (figuratively) to regenerate
[from a variation of G1085]
KJV: bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring
Root(s): G1085
so clearly Joseph had nothing with our Lord’s “begetting”, or being “Born” of. and scripture bare this out. Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli”
*16* and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.
That is what the YLT says, all others differ. The fact is that Joseph is not the biological father of Jesus, the bible says it. But this is what the Greek says. Jacob begat Joseph, Strong's G 1080, which can be used for the father as well for the mother, aktive, than it is begat or passive in this case "ex hes egennethe", Morphology: RelPro-GFS V-AIP-3S, than it refers to the mother, who cannot begat, but only birth a child. Even when "ex hes egennethe" refers to Joseph (I am not an expert), than it should be translated "unto whom is born Jesus". Joseph was married to Mary, so Jesus was born as his legal first born son, no adoption was necessary, Jesus is the legal heir of the throne of David. This is what Mat 1:16 tells us.
That is what the YLT says, all others differ. The fact is that Joseph is not the biological father of Jesus, the bible says it. But this is what the Greek says. Jacob begat Joseph, Strong's G 1080, which can be used for the father as well for the mother, aktive, than it is begat or passive in this case "ex hes egennethe", Morphology: RelPro-GFS V-AIP-3S, than it refers to the mother, who cannot begat, but only birth a child. Even when "ex hes egennethe" refers to Joseph (I am not an expert), than it should be translated "unto whom is born Jesus". Joseph was married to Mary, so Jesus was born as his legal first born son, no adoption was necessary, Jesus is the legal heir of the throne of David. This is what Mat 1:16 tells us.
you're correct, BY "BIRTH", in the House of David he have all right to the throne. scripture, Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne". Mary is that "BODY",(flesh) from David, Luke 1:30 "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. the apostle Paul pick it up when he said, Romans 1:1 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seedof David according to the flesh”. Mary is "of" the seed "of" David. notice the "of".
That is what the YLT says, all others differ. The fact is that Joseph is not the biological father of Jesus, the bible says it. But this is what the Greek says. Jacob begat Joseph, Strong's G 1080, which can be used for the father as well for the mother, aktive, than it is begat or passive in this case "ex hes egennethe", Morphology: RelPro-GFS V-AIP-3S, than it refers to the mother, who cannot begat, but only birth a child. Even when "ex hes egennethe" refers to Joseph (I am not an expert), than it should be translated "unto whom is born Jesus". Joseph was married to Mary, so Jesus was born as his legal first born son, no adoption was necessary, Jesus is the legal heir of the throne of David. This is what Mat 1:16 tells us.
Well said, but I'm not sure it has been made clear to our readers (not that I care either way) The point is that the term which would be translated "begat" in reference to a man is translated "born of" in reference to a woman since the actions and responsibilites of each are different. The text as received makes the reference to Mary, so it should be translate "born of." I should add that in that time the legal status rather than the biological was what was considered, and for the purpose even adopted children were listed as if they had been natural. If this was a scribal emendation to the original, they took care of the doctrinal issue.
The gospel of Jesus
Repent . from self govern to God govern.
Believe Jesus is the only begotten son of God, and the things Jesus taught .
Receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus designated to teach God's will in His place, and learn to Obey God as Jesus did.
In this way one has the ability to avoid "sin"= the absence of obedience. It is possible for one not to sin so long as what they are doing is in obedience to God realtime.
noble works do not save,
Acceptable works are the product of obedience, these are how treasures are laid up in heaven.
Your boss does't pay you to do do your own thing here on earth .
If salvation were based on academics, Satan would be in heaven ahead of you, knowing the scriptures and all religion quite well.
Matthew 4; 1,- Satan like many here, twist the scripture to fit their own agenda, Satan's agenda was in trying to side track Jesus .
Paul did as well. his distraction was seeking man's approval, not obedience to God.
Jesus did not provide salvation to be scripture bound, but dependent on the Holy Spirit to know God's will .
This was God's plan from the beginning.
In heaven ,it will be those already accustomed to taking instruction of God that will abide.
It was Satan's rebellion that got him kicked out.
What you've got in knowledge from men about scriptures is insufficient.
What God would provide ,is significant and eternal.
If you try to drag your old baggage with you in this, You are preventing Him from showing you anything.
The Holy Spirit is not some one to be possessed, nor operated, as some people pretend to do, and He can leave at any moment . He is at complete liberty to listen or respond or ignore .
The more one attempts to manipulate, the more likely he will step aside.
Remember Jesus said when teaching to pray "Thy will be done"
Not My will be done.
The reason many do not get answers from God when they pray.
I am accountable for what God thinks, not what men think God thinks.
The gospel of Jesus
Repent . from self govern to God govern.
Believe Jesus is the only begotten son of God, and the things Jesus taught .
Receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus designated to teach God's will in His place, and learn to Obey God as Jesus did.
In this way one has the ability to avoid "sin"= the absence of obedience. It is possible for one not to sin so long as what they are doing is in obedience to God realtime.
noble works do not save,
Acceptable works are the product of obedience, these are how treasures are laid up in heaven.
Your boss does't pay you to do do your own thing here on earth.
Moderator cut: deleted The purpose of obedience in the beginning was to teach us self-control so that we could use agape love as the motivation for self-control over our selfish impulses. What God wants from us is to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. That takes far more obedience to love than ten or 613 commandments. It affects everything we do.
Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost”.
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost”.
here the word “conceived”, is the same Greek word for “beget”, and “Born”.
G1080 γεννάω gennao (ghen-nah'-o) v.
1. (properly, of the father) to procreate
2. (by extension, of the mother) to conceive
3. (figuratively) to regenerate
[from a variation of G1085]
KJV: bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring
Root(s): G1085
so clearly Joseph had nothing with our Lord’s “begetting”, or being “Born” of. and scripture bare this out. Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli”
supposed is not the real Father.
G1080
Original: γεννάω
Transliteration: gennaō
Phonetic: ghen-nah'-o
Thayer Definition:
of men who fathered children
to be born
to be begotten
of women giving birth to children
Why would this world be used, when He had not been begotten yet?...
And notice, the Angel refers to Miriam as Joseph's wife....
And why the parenthesis around "as was supposed"?...It looks like it was inserted at a later time in order to lead the reader in a particular direction...
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because they were not married yet!...and then it says "for that which is conceived in her", which is telling you that the Angel of the Lord was telling Joseph in layman's terms: "Marry her because she is pregnant with your child and that child is going to be the Messiah" 
