Is death inevitable? (blood, creation, history, soul)
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Pneuma, I can't figure out if this is just a semantics thing? My physical body dying doesn't mean I die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
It would seem so. I dislike getting entangled in semantics arguments because the purpose of the argument often seems to be one-up-man-ship, i.e. "my ego can argue with your ego."
no I don't believe it is a semantics thing sisters, I see no reason but sin that our physical body need die.
why in your opinion does our physical body need die? does it state this anywhere in scripture?
If our physical body is of no use to us after we expire as mystic and Jer seems to be saying how come Jesus' body rose again from death?
Why does Paul tell us that bodies are to be redeemed?
why do scripture tell us God wants our whole being, spirit, soul and body to be preserved blameless?
are you sure you guys are not putting asunder something God has joined together?
Nowhere, do the Scriptures say that being translated is a reference to immortality. And Jesus called the transfiguration of Moses and Elijah; a vision, not reality?
Could it be that you are confusing the second death with that of our physical death?
Just asking, because I have no intention of quoting the entire Bible?
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
I am not asking anyone to quote the entire bible Jer, but it would be nice if someone gave scripture to back up what you guys are saying, like I said opinion will not cut it.
If we live after Christ, don't we live in His Death also? Which is to be the sacrifice for sins? I see death as either after the curse upon Adam as members of His body. But I also see experiencing death as new born creatures in Christ after the blessing of Him to take upon the sins of the world. So in that sense we are too die as a result of His Death.
that's correct trettep, not only have we already died in Christ we have also been risen with him. and if already risen with Him can any death still have power over us.
Matthew 6:25
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the bodythan raiment?
according to what you guys have said our body is just raiment that need to be disposed of, yet our body is more then raiment.
Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body
if our body is to be discarded why is it redeemed?
1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
our bodies are to glorify God, is that which is to glorify God to be then discarded?
2 Corinthians 4:10
always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
if the life of Jesus is to be manifested in our bodies is it not obvious that our bodies are not to be discarded? do we discard that which manifests Christ?
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
we are to be sanctified wholly, spirit, soul and body, is that which is sanctified to be discarded?
ok I think I have given enough scripture to show why I believe what I believe, now can someone please give me some scripture to show why you guys believe our bodies are nothing more then clothes to be discarded?
Pneuma, I put away playing Bible Verse Swap some time ago. While I’ll indulge it from time to time with people who think that the bible is inerrant, because that is the language they speak, I don’t want to do that with someone like you, my friend, who knows that the bible is not God and that God can show us truth in other ways than through a book. And, as I see it, the bible is often all over the map about a single subject, anyway. Looking for it all to harmonize is often a fruitless endeavor.
For instance, the bible talks about the “sin body”, the physical body, the body of Christ, the spiritual body, and I’m going to guess that in some passages, it’s entirely possible that you could think it was talking about one type of body when it might mean a different one. Just like when Paul talks about people sinning against the “body of the Lord” do you take that literally as a reference to the physical body of Jesus? Some people do, some don’t.
That being said, a passage which fits my understanding comes from 1 Cor., which talks about the fact that God has given every seed a body. He’s clothed our spiritual body in a natural body “seed”. And at some point, the seed has to “die” for the spirit to live. That’s how I see it. When you look at the root of a plant, the seed is nowhere to be found. It disappears. I’m good with that being the fate of my physical seed body as well.
Now, I think that sin hastens our physical body’s demise. I play around with the idea that if it weren’t for sin we would have the ability to choose exactly when we shed the physical body. But, either way, I believe the physical body was never meant to be our permanent home.
no I don't believe it is a semantics thing sisters, I see no reason but sin that our physical body need die.
why in your opinion does our physical body need die? does it state this anywhere in scripture?
If our physical body is of no use to us after we expire as mystic and Jer seems to be saying how come Jesus' body rose again from death?
Why does Paul tell us that bodies are to be redeemed?
why do scripture tell us God wants our whole being, spirit, soul and body to be preserved blameless?
are you sure you guys are not putting asunder something God has joined together?
While I think our physical body will one day resurrect, it in no way means I will not one day die, expire, take my last breath.
Suggesting somehow that I can beat the call of my last numbered day given me by God though I do not believe.
1 Corinthians 15:
22, For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
When Jesus said, “he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” John 6:54, he then said, “This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever” John 6:58. What the Lord is saying is that among those who believe in Him, some will die and be raised up while others will not pass through death at all. The only way to beat death is to be raised up before it occurs. If the obits are any indication there are none being raptured alive.
Pneuma, I put away playing Bible Verse Swap some time ago. While I’ll indulge it from time to time with people who think that the bible is inerrant, because that is the language they speak, I don’t want to do that with someone like you, my friend, who knows that the bible is not God and that God can show us truth in other ways than through a book. And, as I see it, the bible is often all over the map about a single subject, anyway. Looking for it all to harmonize is often a fruitless endeavor.
For instance, the bible talks about the “sin body”, the physical body, the body of Christ, the spiritual body, and I’m going to guess that in some passages, it’s entirely possible that you could think it was talking about one type of body when it might mean a different one. Just like when Paul talks about people sinning against the “body of the Lord” do you take that literally as a reference to the physical body of Jesus? Some people do, some don’t.
That being said, a passage which fits my understanding comes from 1 Cor., which talks about the fact that God has given every seed a body. He’s clothed our spiritual body in a natural body “seed”. And at some point, the seed has to “die” for the spirit to live. That’s how I see it. When you look at the root of a plant, the seed is nowhere to be found. It disappears. I’m good with that being the fate of my physical seed body as well.
Now, I think that sin hastens our physical body’s demise. I play around with the idea that if it weren’t for sin we would have the ability to choose exactly when we shed the physical body. But, either way, I believe the physical body was never meant to be our permanent home.
would that not be planting a seed within a seed?
If this is refering to our physical body, how is it that anyone, including Jesus, spirit live?
To me the belief that our physical body needs to die in order for us live is just a twist on the OT blood laws of sacrifice, for the life of the flesh is in the blood. So instead of some animal needing to die so we can live now we have people believing we have to die so that we might live. Yet Christ tasted death for all men. Seems to me the focus is again taken off of Christ and put upon man instead of animals.
And just to make this clear for everyone I am speaking of physical death here not the death to self that is required.
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