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God's laws are what is known as natural/spiritual law.
Any punishment received is intrinsic to the breaking of the law itself.
If we break the law of gravity, God doesn't need to send a lightning bolt to strike us down and punish us.
Walking off a cliff to a likely certain death is the just "punishment" of breaking that law.
Likewise if we break spiritual laws. There are intrinsic penalties that will happen if for example we choose to live a hedonistic or sinful/indulgent lifestyle. Again no need for God to send any lightning bolts - we will simply reap what we sow.
This is known as natural law and it is worth studying if you are interested.
This is at direct opposition with man's law where man will arbitrarily imprison someone for victimless crimes.
It comes down to the principles of truth and love. Jesus commanded us to love God and one another - there is a reason for this. When we are operating in love, we fulfill all commands, and there are no negative consequences to reap. To love one another is the fulfillment of the law.
The more we operate in accordance with the principles of truth and love, the better off we are. The more we operate in opposition to truth and love, the more suffering we will cause. This is known as non-love or simply put: sin. In this manner we will reap what we sow, and this is what God's vengeance is: reaping the results of our own actions due to the natural laws of love and truth.
God's laws are what is known as natural/spiritual law.
Any punishment received is intrinsic to the breaking of the law itself.
If we break the law of gravity, God doesn't need to send a lightning bolt to strike us down and punish us.
Walking off a cliff to a likely certain death is the just "punishment" of breaking that law.
Likewise if we break spiritual laws. There are intrinsic penalties that will happen if for example we choose to live a hedonistic or sinful/indulgent lifestyle. Again no need for God to send any lightning bolts - we will simply reap what we sow.
This is known as natural law and it is worth studying if you are interested.
This is at direct opposition with man's law where man will arbitrarily imprison someone for victimless crimes.
It comes down to the principles of truth and love. Jesus commanded us to love God and one another - there is a reason for this. When we are operating in love, we fulfill all commands, and there are no negative consequences to reap. To love one another is the fulfillment of the law.
The more we operate in accordance with the principles of truth and love, the better off we are. The more we operate in opposition to truth and love, the more suffering we will cause. This is known as non-love or simply put: sin. In this manner we will reap what we sow, and this is what God's vengeance is: reaping the results of our own actions due to the natural laws of love and truth.
GOD Laws are written down in the Holy Bible for those that need clarity and understanding on how to operate in the Earth. If you choose to make up your own "Laws" then that's just not wise.
Natural Laws such as Gravity, Oxygen(Atmosphere), Sleep cycle, Digestion, etc...which The Most High also created, are not the Laws that I'm reffering to.
I'm referring to the Laws GOD gave for mankind to conduct himself in the Earth.
GOD Laws are written down in the Holy Bible for those that need clarity and understanding on how to operate in the Earth. If you choose to make up your own "Laws" then that's just not wise.
Natural Laws such as Gravity, Oxygen(Atmosphere), Sleep cycle, Digestion, etc...which The Most High also created, are not the Laws that I'm reffering to.
I'm referring to the Laws GOD gave for mankind to conduct himself in the Earth.
I was referring to all laws - the physical were example to show how all laws work, but of course the main law is God's law to love God and love one another as you would love yourself, and to even love your enemies. Perhaps you missed that part? I didn't say anything about "making up" laws.
Natural law is God's law.
There is an objective truth and an objective morality. If we operate our self in opposition to that objective truth and morality, then we are in the wrong, and we will cause suffering, and we will reap negative consequences.
That is why Jesus summarized it so easily in saying that LOVE is the fulfilment of the commandments.
If you are operating in LOVE, then you are not stealing, not coveting, not lying, and not murdering. You are not causing SUFFERING because you are in accordance with the natural law of truth and law.
I'm referring to the Laws GOD gave for mankind to conduct himself in the Earth.
You Moderator cut: deleted fail to explain how you can now ignore the worst of the evil commandments in the Bible . . . like stoning children for disobedience, stoning adulterers, bashing babies heads in, etc. etc. As a moral guide and provider of laws to live by the bible is a mess of contradictions and lacks a unifying principle other than "might makes right" . . . and God is the almighty. Whatever capricious thing He asks is to be done. Moderator cut: deleted
Last edited by june 7th; 07-08-2014 at 12:44 PM..
Reason: Insulting towards other members.
Recently in my continuing journey to understand truth, I've started studying in detail the concept of Natural Law. Just curious, have you heard of Mark Passio? He gives an excellent VERY in-depth explanation of it. Previous to about a month ago I wasn't fully awake to it. Anyway from rethinking about all your posts, I guess you have some understanding of natural law.
In studying objective truth, objective morality, natural law, natural consequences, it hit me that that was exactly what Jesus was talking about.
Natural law can be summed up simply by do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Who said that before?
And if you don't follow this principle you are outside of the operation of truth and love.
Furthermore, if you do not understand the truth, it is likely you are violating this in some way.
When we violate natural law, we will reap the consequences - it cannot be avoided. It may be delayed, but it will happen.
This has been called karma, or reaping what we sow, and is related simply the principle of LOVE, which is what God commanded us to do.
God = LOVE = TRUTH = what we are to do and what we are to become.
If we don't do this, we suffer naturally due to the consequences of our own actions.
This world is the prime example and is filled with people who care about only doing what is to their benefit, regardless if someone else may get a "little" harmed. It is why there are people starving and unjust wars continue and corruption is ripe. People don't seem to care as long as they and their house are "ok". But we are all reaping the consequences in this world because of this moral decay.
You Moderator cut: Orphanedfail to explain how you can now ignore the worst of the evil commandments in the Bible . . . like stoning children for disobedience, stoning adulterers, bashing babies heads in, etc. etc. As a moral guide and provider of laws to live by the bible is a mess of contradictions and lacks a unifying principle other than "might makes right" . . . and God is the almighty. Whatever capricious thing He asks is to be done. Moderator cut: Orphaned
Yes indeed.
But stoning children etc. MUST have been an example of MAN's law, because it is not in accordance with GOD's law made unambiguous by Christ: simply, to love your neighbor as yourself.
God's laws are what is known as natural/spiritual law. Any punishment received is intrinsic to the breaking of the law itself. If we break the law of gravity, God doesn't need to send a lightning bolt to strike us down and punish us. Walking off a cliff to a likely certain death is the just "punishment" of breaking that law.
Likewise if we break spiritual laws. There are intrinsic penalties that will happen if for example we choose to live a hedonistic or sinful/indulgent lifestyle. Again no need for God to send any lightning bolts - we will simply reap what we sow.
This is known as natural law and it is worth studying if you are interested. This is at direct opposition with man's law where man will arbitrarily imprison someone for victimless crimes.
It comes down to the principles of truth and love. Jesus commanded us to love God and one another - there is a reason for this. When we are operating in love, we fulfill all commands, and there are no negative consequences to reap. To love one another is the fulfillment of the law.
The more we operate in accordance with the principles of truth and love, the better off we are. The more we operate in opposition to truth and love, the more suffering we will cause. This is known as non-love or simply put: sin. In this manner we will reap what we sow, and this is what God's vengeance is: reaping the results of our own actions due to the natural laws of love and truth.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament, HOWEVER, he did NOT do away with the moral laws and the consequences of sin.
I suppose some feel that the Old Testament is just old fuddy duddy stuff that we don't have to follow. But reap what you sew is truly true even for now.
Then others want to sin and will find an excuse to do so.
Then others feel that morals are not black and white, and they believe today's liberals and progressives who wish to sin, but its the same old sins we find in Genesis and Leviticus and all thru the Old Testament even.
Oh, so its only "liberals and progressives" that want to sin?
Not conservatives, who advocate for war and the death penalty despite "Thou shall not kill"?
Not conservatives, who resent having any of their precious income going to help the poor?
Not conservatives, who shun anyone who is not the same color, religion, nationality or sexual orientation?
I think liberals and conservatives are equally guilty, they just choose different parts of God's law they want to ignore.
But stoning children etc. MUST have been an example of MAN's law, because it is not in accordance with GOD's law made unambiguous by Christ: simply, to love your neighbor as yourself.
Can it be that simple?
And THIS is the crux of the problem. There are those who require an authority that spells out the details of action rather than requiring us to implement the principles. The horror comes when their perceived "details" violate the principles, but they insist on them anyway.
The Godfather version of God seems to have so much more impact with far too many Christians than the Father God Christ revealed by His life, teachings and death as the God IS love version, Pleroo. I am at a loss as to why that is. It seems so counter intuitive. "I give you an offer of love you can't refuse . . . or else" . . . versus . . . "I love you unconditionally."
I struggled with this for years ( "I give you an offer of love you can't refuse . . . or else" . . . versus . . . "I love you unconditionally.")
I was taught we are saved by trusting....but if you don't trust enough, watch out!
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