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It's not the idea of maturation I have a problem with. It's the idea that God specifically designed our experience to include suffering and sin in order that we could develop the ability to respond to suffering and sin in a mature way, and yet we're supposedly never going to have to deal with suffering and sin once "God is all in all". What's the point? I guess it's just me but that makes no sense in my mind.
Pain and suffering have no probative value.
It's unnecessary to test someone's endurance.
Especially, if you already know the outcome?
Unfortunately, it's a part of this life, due to the faculties of men.
And the nature of this body, which begins to die as soon as it's born.
Although, it does have the capacity to heal itself?
Location: The High Desert of the American Southwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
I hate to be a wet blanket at what appears to be a nice love-in...but....
I only wish I could believe it. In my heart, I don't.
But since I'm not a Christian, my beliefs don't matter!
So, carry on with the group hugging.
Yeah......some of these stories almost make me wish I could throw away all that overwhelming evidence that God does NOT exist--and also ignore the dearth of evidence FOR it-- and join the flock and believe in an Invisible Best Friend.
(LOL--An "IBF!")
But since I'm not an eight-year-old kid who still believes in superstitious beings--like Santa and the Easter Bunny, whose plausibility are in my mind are equal to that of a God, I reckon I have to continue thinking like a rational adult and realize that my life, and indeed the history of the world, has unfolded EXACTLY as if there were no supernatural being up there who gave two figs about us.
It's kinda like that guy Paul said a long, long time ago but putting away childish things........
That is what had to change , Jesus called it repentance , not just apology .
The change is not just doing right noble things, but having Jesus lordship in my life, so that I could obey Him, otherwise I am still wandering around self governed, not God governed.
It is illegitimate to call Jesus Lord and not actually being obedient in the relationship.
This is what He provided the Holy Spirit, to teach us in Jesus place. John 14;16, -26, 15;26, 1John2;
God's love does not lead him to compromise as it does in man.
I love all my children but those that obey me I give the greater attention and mercy. they that are rebellious whom choose not to listen to me, will suffer the consequences of their behavior on their own.
[quote=Heartsong;35841225][color="RoyalBlue"]Do you believe God loves YOU personally? If so, how has this changed your life.
When I repented and asked God to have His lordship in my life I knew an awareness of God that I had not known before. In that moment I was working toward having His approval , continuing faithful with the things Jesus taught and seeking after the tutelage of the Holy Spirit ,I knew then that , that is what God was after. and our relationship continues to grow.
Having God's approval comes from obedience to His son and to the Holy Spirit Jesus provided,not academics .
Out side this lifestyle of being God governed, one is yet in sin=self govern.
The best expression of loving God IS obedience, not one's gifts or knowledge or noise.
The first command is to Love God .
When this behavior is intact, all other instruction God gives directly, and a relationship is being formed.
Jesus also requires faithfulness , so it's not some one shot, been there done that religion.
Jesus taught accountability not grace ,(as in being taught by Paul as "God compromising with sin ".
God does not, nor ever will compromise with sin.
He would not be Holy, if He did so.
David said , "Delight thy self also in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." when you love God and are obeying Him ,He then can give guidance ,to whom and how loving is to be expressed. Superseding this instruction is self govern ,noble but falling back into sin.
Loving some one else in place of loving God, does not qualify as obedience, nor do you know from God's perspective the best way to express that love for another.
Paul though noble, saying "I am all things to all men so that I might win some." this is clearly deceiving and not representing God at all.
Jesus did not compromise with any one, and his example was of obedience to that Father, not even His own will.
In fact He was not politically correct at all , affronting Jewish leadership, and this, in obedience to the Father.
This is in direct contrast to Paul's behavior .
Matthew 7; 21,22,23, Jesus makes it pretty clear God expects obedience , which is the best expression of love. but abusing the power of Jesus name, and falsely calling Him Lord, are not love at all.
How has this changed my life ?
In every way.
Seeking what He want's of me through out the day whom to help and how ,as well as providing the means to do so, well beyond my own capabilities.
Sometimes I take heat , often times God turns it around. the out come is not my concern though among men I take the heat one way or another being responsible for all my actions, even those things God instructs me.
Even as Jesus obeyed the Father and men still killed Him.
Even though I share miracles God has done , atheists in disbelief accuse me of lying ,I cannot help that in them. I am merely sharing mine and the experiences of others have had in my presents .
I know God's love for me, and my love for Him are real. The depth of this relationship changes and grows regularly .
I understand this all as a preparation for heaven, because if God's authority is not recognized here, in heaven rebellion will not be tolerated.
I know God's love for me, and my love for Him are real. The depth of this relationship changes and grows regularly .
I understand this all as a preparation for heaven, because if God's authority is not recognized here, in heaven rebellion will not be tolerated.
Yet what one considers rebellion varies from one person to another. I don't consider it rebellion if a person does not see or believe or perceive everything just like I do.
Great swathes of people who don't believe is just one of the marvels for me, about what God has got for us, up His sleeve, so to speak, in the next life. Having moved toward a Universalist view, because the extreme opposites of bliss versus torture didn't fit anymore, kind of opens up ideas about the grey areas or experiences there must be on the other side. The bibles black and white view contrasts strongly with NDE testimonies, so I get the feeling that those who dont yet believe in this life, pass into the next in exactly the same state as they were 5 minutes before dying. Unless you know Jesus before dying, there's no need or point to meeting Him straight away when you pass through. There's all the other NDE experiences have as well, just like the vast variety of experiences we can have in this life. You get the first thing you need on the other side, perfectly designed for you. And this is how it is for babies, who haven't had much of a life on earth. Remember, father God is a perfect mother too, and those infants have relatives who have already passed on. They have to grow into personhood in heaven, just like they would on earth. No short cuts, and ages and ages to grow to know Abba.
Do you believe God loves YOU personally? If so, how has this changed your life.
Do you believe God loved you before you ever thought about seeking him? Or do you believe his love toward you is dependent on what you know, what you do, what you believe, etc....
Do you believe that love comes from God and is the reason why humans love others? Do you believe if it were not for the love flowing from God's omnipotent Spirit that there would be no love in the world.
Do you believe God could or would ever stop loving us?
Is there anything more important to God than love?
I don't think God can ever stop loving us. However, I do struggle with thoughts about Heaven and nobody has been able to ease my mind about it, even other Christians. Other than my struggling thoughts, I hear it's supposed to be paradise, but throw in a radical shift in understanding, my emotions take a total U-turn. I still believe it's otherwise paradise though.
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God loved me, but my behavior put us at odds.
