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You denigrate 2000+ years of human knowledge and understanding as if there is no difference between what we know today and what they knew in the 1st century and earlier. No matter how you define primitive . . . they definitely were primitives . . . if for no other reason than some of their barbaric practices and beliefs. You keep saying I know better . . . but it is not ME . . . it is Christ. He set the precedent for NOT putting new wine in old wineskins. So, Finn . . . show me ONE thing that could be considered spiritual "solid food" that has changed from the carnal "milk" of the 1st century. There has been nothing but stagnation at that primitive and barbaric level of understanding as a sign of faith in God!
Finn is an intelligent person he understands what you are saying. How can he not understand that everything under the sun has been advanced considerably.
I agree that it was not an apology, so Paul was not talking about a normal "sin offering."
So, what is the difference between showing that the Law was inadequate and because the Law WAS inadequate?
Correct, Paul was not talking about an apology. You are the only one who said anything about an apology. The law was inadequate, but Jesus did not die just to demonstrate the fact.
Correct, Paul was not talking about an apology. You are the only one who said anything about an apology. The law was inadequate, but Jesus did not die just to demonstrate the fact.
I think I said it was to invalidate the Law as basis for judgement. Basically removing "the Law of sin and death" and putting spiritual priorities up, and I'm not talking about believeing things about Jesus, but accepting and living in that concern for the well-being of others that Jesus taught....yes, "love."
I think I said it was to invalidate the Law as basis for judgement. Basically removing "the Law of sin and death" and putting spiritual priorities up, and I'm not talking about believeing things about Jesus, but accepting and living in that concern for the well-being of others that Jesus taught....yes, "love."
Define "it". His death? You gave another reason for His death on the other thread, so maybe you are talking about something else here.
What does it mean Jesus fulfilled the law? Multiple answers allowed.
It means He put an end to the Old Law by completing it!
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."(Romans 10:4)
Jesus said He came "to fulfill the Law and the Prophets"..
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."(Matthew 5:17-18)
The Old Law is not in effect anymore, Christ brought about an end to the Old Law.. People who argue that the Old Law is still in effect and that Christ didn't end it, base their argument on Matthew 5:17, which says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."... But they stop right there, they don't go on and quote Matthew 5:18, which says, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."... That's called "cherry picking", it's picking one particular scripture that seemingly proves your argument is correct, by leaving out a proceeding scripture/scriptures that go on to actually prove that you're wrong.. You can't do that!
In Matthew 5:18, Christ is saying that the law would continue until all was fulfilled, or made complete, Jesus is implying that the law in its current state was not complete.. It wasn't complete at that time because he hadn't accomplished what He was sent to do yet, Christ had not died on the cross yet.. The very moment after He said, “It is finished!”, bowed His head and gave up His spirit, all things had been accomplished, the Law was complete and that was the end of the Law.. You can bring about the end to something in a couple of different ways.. 1. You can destroy and demolish it or 2. You can complete it.. Both brings it to and end.. Jesus did not cancel the law out, He brought it to a natural conclusion..
Jesus explained what he meant by "fulfilled" when he emphasized that the Law would not end until all was fulfilled. “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:18)... Jesus is stating that the permanence of the law was conditional. He gave two possible ending conditions: either heaven and earth would come to and end, or all would be accomplished.. His phrasing is similar to the parent who tells their child, “You’ll set here all night until you eat your peas.” The implication is that the child would not be at the table all night; the peas would be eaten before then.. In the same way, Jesus is saying that the world would have a better chance of ending before God accomplished His purpose for the Law, than the chance of the Law ending before all was accomplished, but that the Law would end when all had been accomplished.. Some people focus so hard on the first condition that they miss the fact that the second condition would occur before the first, thus bringing the Law to completion and to an end.. The same type of phrasing can be found in Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:31-33.
The purpose of the Law was culminated in Christ Jesus.. Jesus was its goal.. With His death, he brought the law to its conclusion.. "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."(Colossians 2:14)... Or as Paul said in another letter, "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."(Galatians 3:24-25).
God always intended for the Law to be temporary, because it was missing some necessary parts.. The Law was unable to give its followers life (Galatians 3:21). It could not make its followers perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19). Thus, it had a fault, not in itself, but in the inadequacy of those who tried to live by it (Hebrews 8:7). It could explain and hold a person accountable for sin, but in itself it could not cleanse sin (Hebrews 10:1-4, 8-10, 14). It took the sacrifice of Jesus to correct the missing elements (Hebrews 9:15). So now, with the death of Christ, those who kept the Law, His blood would reach back and cleanse them of their sins..
So, "What does it mean Jesus fulfilled the law?"
It means that He fulfilled all Old Testament prophecy and God's promises under the Old Law.. It means that He brought an end to the Old Covenant, establishing the New Covenant, revealed through Him and ratified by His blood.. Christ's death on that cross completed God's purpose for the Law.. So, as for the Law, it has been fulfilled, "it is finished!"
The 'law' before Jesus required a perfect blood sacrifice to atone for sins. Jesus came, not to remove that requirement, but to fulfill it once and for all for those who would believe. This subject requires a good understanding of OT law.
I think what you said needs to be clarified a little more..
"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."(Hebrews 10:1-4)
Making those sacrifices didn't atone for or take away their sins.. As you said, "The 'law' before Jesus required a perfect blood sacrifice"... They were required to keep the whole law to be considered righteous in the eyes of God.. The sacrifices they were required to make, were only one letter of the whole law they were required to keep.. So, it's not in those sacrifices that atonement for their sins was made.. It is in their keeping of the entire law that the blood of Christ makes atonement for their sins..
"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."(Hebrews 9:15)
The Hebrews writer's point is that the regular sacrifices didn't solve the problem of sin. Instead it continually reminded people of their sins. If it solved the problem, it would not need to be repeated...
Simply put, if they weren't obedient to and didn't keep all the other parts of the Law, they could of sacrificed bulls and goats all day long and their sins wouldn't be forgiven, because the blood of those sacrifices didn't have the power to cleanse them of sin, only the blood of Christ can cleanse a person of sin and if they didn't obey all other parts of the law, even though they made those sacrifices, their sins won't be cleansed by the blood of Christ, because they weren't completely obedient..
So, it wasn't the blood of those animals that cleansed them of their sin, it's the blood of Christ that cleanses them of their sin, because they kept every aspect of the Law..
Dear Finn,
You are misquoting Mt 5:17-18," Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, untl heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished".
The Law and the Prophets have not been fulfilled at this time. Yeshua has yet to rule from Jerualem (Ze 14), there has been no first resurrection, the nations have not been judged, nor has there been a second resurrection with respect to judgment day. To top that, the earth has not passed away.
Dear 2ndpillar,
Sorry, but it's you who is misinterpreting and misquoting Matthew 5:17-18
Yes it has been fulfilled.. Jesus said He came to the earth for a specific purpose. That purpose was to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17). In this context, to "fulfill" simply means "to finish or bring to an end." This is made clearer when it is viewed from the perspective of a covenant. Indeed, it is a covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34). It is the first covenant which gave way for the second (Hebrews 8:7-13).
To say that it hasn't been fulfilled, is to say that Christ never came and died on the cross!
How Did Christ Fulfill the Law?
By fulfilling what the prophets said of Him, Jesus completed the law. There is not one prophecy of the Old Testament that Jesus failed to fulfill. He said, "...all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me." (Luke 24:44).
Jesus Christ also fulfilled the Law by living perfectly or sinlessly. Under the Law, the only way man could stand justified before God was to keep all of the law, all of the time (Galatians 2:16). From this standpoint, the law could not justify any man because no man except Christ kept all of the law, all of the time. So, "the law made nothing perfect" (Hebrews 7:19). It became a curse because it condemned man (Galatians 3:13).
But again, Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping it. He "committed no sin" (1 Peter 2:22). Satan, the Pharisees, and the religious leaders of His days used extreme situations to tempt Jesus Christ to sin, but He did not succumb to these temptations.
The sinlessness of Christ is underscored by the action and the statement of the one who scourged Him, when "he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person" (Matthew 27:24). The one who betrayed Him also declared His innocence, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood" (Matthew 27:4).
By perfectly obeying the law through His sinless life, Jesus Christ honored and fulfilled the law. Thus, He fulfilled the demands of the law and brought redemption to man (Galatians 4:4-5).
Apart from that, Jesus fulfilled the law by offering His life as a perfect sacrifice for sin. He was "a lamb without blemish or spot" (1 Peter 1:19). He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Hebrews 9:26). The death of Christ fulfilled the law by being the perfect sacrifice required for the penalty for our sin. He "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2:2).
Therefore, Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets by fulfilling what the prophets said of Him, by His perfect obedience, and by His death on the cross. Against this backdrop, He was able to say, "it is finished" (John 19:30). His death on the cross "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Colossians 2:14). Because the law has been fulfilled we are no longer under it (Galatians 3:19, 23-25).
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law, till all is fulfilled.""Matthew 5:18"
Like the previous verse, some have read into the passage much more than our Lord said. To some people what Jesus is saying is that till heaven and earth pass away, the law will not pass away. That idea betrays a woeful ignorance of logic and grammar.
Consider this illustration: If a labor leaders says, "till heaven and earth pass away, workers will not return to work until all our demands are met," would anyone understand the labor leader to be saying workers would not return to work until heaven and earth passes away? How does that follow from the premises? Rather, people who understand the use of language know that the labor leader is saying workers would return to work only after their demands are met.
Besides, the word "till" implies temporariness. It also denotes a termination point. Jesus is simply saying the law would not pass away till all is fulfilled. It logically follows that when it is fulfilled, it would pass away.
Now, the big question is Has Christ fulfilled the law He declared He did (Luke 24:44). Because He had fulfilled the law, He took it out of the way and nailed it to His cross (Colossians 2:14).
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith. In addition, the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree”(Galatians 3:10-13)
What law is Paul speaking of and what is the “curse” of that law? Paul was referring specifically to the Law of Moses (i.e. the Ten Commandments), but the same principles apply to any system of law. The “curse” of the law is that one must keep the entire Law in order to be justified by it and that once one has sinned under the Law, there is no way to put away one’s guilt. The Law of Moses made no provision for the forgiveness of sin. In James 2:10, we are taught that under a system of law (any system that is totally based upon a rule of law), if one tries to keep the whole law but offends in even one point, he is guilty of all. The curse of the Law, according to Paul in Romans 7:7-13, is that it exposed sin in his life, yet it did nothing to take away his guilt.
The Law of Moses only allowed for forgiveness in prospect, that is, it only covered the sins of men until Christ came to take away those sins. Now that Christ has come, the Law has been taken away. It was nailed to the cross along with Him (Colossians 2:13-14). So now, we are free from the curse of the Law of Moses. We live under the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses and Christ demands our obedience. Matthew 7:21 teaches that we must do the will of the Father in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of God is our law. The will of God has been revealed in its fullness in the New Testament. The Word of Christ will judge us in the last day. Those who reject Christ and His Word are rejecting the very law that will judge them. (John 12:48) We are now under the Law of Christ. Galatians 6:2 gives us the imperative command to bear one another’s bur-dens in order to fulfill the law of Christ.
Every time we observe the Lord's supper, we are reminded, "After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."(1 Corinthians 11:25)
Jesus knew why he came, make no mistake about that.. Jesus also knew what awaited him in heaven. He had a strong desire to fulfill his mission, to please the Father, and return home again! That's what He did too, He accomplished and fulfilled His mission and in fulfilling His mission, He fulfilled the Law and the Prophets..
Sorry, but it's you who is misinterpreting and misquoting Matthew 5:17-18
Yes it has been fulfilled.. Jesus said He came to the earth for a specific purpose. That purpose was to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17). In this context, to "fulfill" simply means "to finish or bring to an end." This is made clearer when it is viewed from the perspective of a covenant. Indeed, it is a covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34). It is the first covenant which gave way for the second (Hebrews 8:7-13).
To say that it hasn't been fulfilled, is to say that Christ never came and died on the cross!
How Did Christ Fulfill the Law?
By fulfilling what the prophets said of Him, Jesus completed the law. There is not one prophecy of the Old Testament that Jesus failed to fulfill. He said, "...all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me." (Luke 24:44).
Jesus Christ also fulfilled the Law by living perfectly or sinlessly. Under the Law, the only way man could stand justified before God was to keep all of the law, all of the time (Galatians 2:16). From this standpoint, the law could not justify any man because no man except Christ kept all of the law, all of the time. So, "the law made nothing perfect" (Hebrews 7:19). It became a curse because it condemned man (Galatians 3:13)
Good commentary. Jesus fulfilled everything He came to fulfill (see first five options in the poll), but some things, like the 2nd coming, have not yet come to be.
But again, Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping it. He "committed no sin" (1 Peter 2:22). Satan, the Pharisees, and the religious leaders of His days used extreme situations to tempt Jesus Christ to sin, but He did not succumb to these temptations.
The sinlessness of Christ is underscored by the action and the statement of the one who scourged Him, when "he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person" (Matthew 27:24). The one who betrayed Him also declared His innocence, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood" (Matthew 27:4).
By perfectly obeying the law through His sinless life, Jesus Christ honored and fulfilled the law. Thus, He fulfilled the demands of the law and brought redemption to man (Galatians 4:4-5).
Apart from that, Jesus fulfilled the law by offering His life as a perfect sacrifice for sin. He was "a lamb without blemish or spot" (1 Peter 1:19). He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Hebrews 9:26). The death of Christ fulfilled the law by being the perfect sacrifice required for the penalty for our sin. He "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2:2).
Therefore, Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets by fulfilling what the prophets said of Him, by His perfect obedience, and by His death on the cross. Against this backdrop, He was able to say, "it is finished" (John 19:30). His death on the cross "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Colossians 2:14). Because the law has been fulfilled we are no longer under it (Galatians 3:19, 23-25).
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law, till all is fulfilled.""Matthew 5:18"
Like the previous verse, some have read into the passage much more than our Lord said. To some people what Jesus is saying is that till heaven and earth pass away, the law will not pass away. That idea betrays a woeful ignorance of logic and grammar.
Consider this illustration: If a labor leaders says, "till heaven and earth pass away, workers will not return to work until all our demands are met," would anyone understand the labor leader to be saying workers would not return to work until heaven and earth passes away? How does that follow from the premises? Rather, people who understand the use of language know that the labor leader is saying workers would return to work only after their demands are met.
Besides, the word "till" implies temporariness. It also denotes a termination point. Jesus is simply saying the law would not pass away till all is fulfilled. It logically follows that when it is fulfilled, it would pass away.
Now, the big question is Has Christ fulfilled the law He declared He did (Luke 24:44). Because He had fulfilled the law, He took it out of the way and nailed it to His cross (Colossians 2:14).
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith. In addition, the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree”(Galatians 3:10-13)
What law is Paul speaking of and what is the “curse” of that law? Paul was referring specifically to the Law of Moses (i.e. the Ten Commandments), but the same principles apply to any system of law. The “curse” of the law is that one must keep the entire Law in order to be justified by it and that once one has sinned under the Law, there is no way to put away one’s guilt. The Law of Moses made no provision for the forgiveness of sin. In James 2:10, we are taught that under a system of law (any system that is totally based upon a rule of law), if one tries to keep the whole law but offends in even one point, he is guilty of all. The curse of the Law, according to Paul in Romans 7:7-13, is that it exposed sin in his life, yet it did nothing to take away his guilt.
The Law of Moses only allowed for forgiveness in prospect, that is, it only covered the sins of men until Christ came to take away those sins. Now that Christ has come, the Law has been taken away. It was nailed to the cross along with Him (Colossians 2:13-14). So now, we are free from the curse of the Law of Moses. We live under the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses and Christ demands our obedience. Matthew 7:21 teaches that we must do the will of the Father in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of God is our law. The will of God has been revealed in its fullness in the New Testament. The Word of Christ will judge us in the last day. Those who reject Christ and His Word are rejecting the very law that will judge them. (John 12:48) We are now under the Law of Christ. Galatians 6:2 gives us the imperative command to bear one another’s bur-dens in order to fulfill the law of Christ.
Every time we observe the Lord's supper, we are reminded, "After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."(1 Corinthians 11:25)
Jesus knew why he came, make no mistake about that.. Jesus also knew what awaited him in heaven. He had a strong desire to fulfill his mission, to please the Father, and return home again! That's what He did too, He accomplished and fulfilled His mission and in fulfilling His mission, He fulfilled the Law and the Prophets..
Good commentary. Jesus fulfilled everything He came to fulfill (see first five options in the poll), but some things, like the 2nd coming, have not yet come to be.
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