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Jesus said unless you repent you will perish. Yes, scripture says repentance unto life:
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
That is what the word of God is given to us for...to show us the way. Read the parable of the Publican and the story of Zacchaeus, as well as all of Psalms and Proverbs. God's word is filled with explanations on humility. Jesus whole life is an example on humility-He gave us an example to follow:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
OK? Repentance is the act of humbling oneself and submitting to God, turning away from your sin. So...it's hard to embrace a savior for the forgiveness of your sin if you don't repent. But nowhere does it say that one earns God's love by changing behavior.
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Not true at all. We can humble ourselves and submit our lives into His care. He will then build us up and teach us the way of righteousness through His words.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Jesus said you must be 'born again' for a reason. You must partake of the divine nature and escape the corruption of the world. 'Unmerited favor' is doctrine of devils. Those who believe they have 'unmerited favor' can be gay and still think they have salvation. They think they can commit adultery and still have salvation ...But scripture is clear- Whoremongers and liars and adulterers and fornicators God WILL judge. Nowhere in scripture will you find the term 'unmerited grace'. It only says that grace comes from God, 'not of us' and that grace is a 'free gift'. Jesus is that free gift, and we are told He is the author of salvation to those who obey Him...
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
So do you obey perfectly?
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He said I am 'the way' for a reason, and to follow Him. Jesus leads us in the 'way of salvation'. Without obedience to Jesus, you have no salvation... This is a continual state of being. If you are not obeying Him, which way are you going?
So we have to follow him in the way that leads to salvation? Do you believe in the sacrificial atonement?
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1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
You just told me above that you had to obey....now you're saying you can't?
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Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Can you 'lose salvation'? YEP...If you walk off the path of Jesus, you are on the path to death... Jesus said remain in me and abide in me. Salvation is a state or condition that we are in as followers of Jesus. For those who knew the way of righteousness and turned away from it, it is like a dog going back to its vomit or a sow back to its wallow, and many do just that...We must endure sound doctrine and remain faithful to that sound word.
So what does that look like? Exactly HOW does one lose their salvation in 21st Century America? Is it by sexual immorality? By breaking one of the 10 Commandments? By going to an R rated movie? By watching tv at all? Give me some real life application here.
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1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
We are told to test ourselves to see if we are 'in the faith' for good reason. Jesus will lead you in the way of righteousness if you are listening to His Spirit and obeying His word. He is 'the way' of Salvation. Many think that they are on His path and hearing His voice, and they are wrong:
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You are totally missing the point... They call Him Lord because they think they know Him. In other words, the spirit they were hearing was not Him( even though they were sure it was). He tells them bluntly- sorry but that was not me, I never knew you-depart from me. The point is that they had a false Christ...
Yah....get away.....he never knew them. Nothing there about "you didn't do enough to earn my favor".
Weird, huh? You seem to want to take the Gospel of Grace and turn it into a law.
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"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man" isn't just a saying...
TC
I agree. You're like the foolish Galatians that wanted to live by law so much they gave up the Gospel.
Gal 3:1-7 " O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham."
OK? Repentance is the act of humbling oneself and submitting to God, turning away from your sin. So...it's hard to embrace a savior for the forgiveness of your sin if you don't repent. But nowhere does it say that one earns God's love by changing behavior.
So do you obey perfectly?
So we have to follow him in the way that leads to salvation? Do you believe in the sacrificial atonement?
You just told me above that you had to obey....now you're saying you can't?
So what does that look like? Exactly HOW does one lose their salvation in 21st Century America? Is it by sexual immorality? By breaking one of the 10 Commandments? By going to an R rated movie? By watching tv at all? Give me some real life application here.
Yah....get away.....he never knew them. Nothing there about "you didn't do enough to earn my favor".
Weird, huh? You seem to want to take the Gospel of Grace and turn it into a law.
I agree. You're like the foolish Galatians that wanted to live by law so much they gave up the Gospel.
Gal 3:1-7 " O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham."
Let's look at that Galatians verse in the KJV and see what has conveniently been omitted from your translation:
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Your version removes that very important phrase and thus you are the foolish one who has been 'bewitched' by a false gospel that doesn't require obedience for salvation. Your Bible is corrupt ...(That's a whole 'nother' subject).
You said:
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But nowhere does it say that one earns God's love by changing behavior.
You are dead wrong:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Scripture is consistent when you have a trustworthy translation...
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So we have to follow him in the way that leads to salvation? Do you believe in the sacrificial atonement?
Absolutely, Jesus paid for our sins with His death. That by itself doesn't give us life though. We must be born again (quickened).
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
When Jesus said 'unless you are born again you will not enter the Kingdom of God', He wasn't kidding...
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Are you still doing those things or has Jesus given you the power to overcome them? That is true salvation. If you are led of the Spirit, you are not under the law-The gospel of 'grace' is to be led by the Holy Spirit in the way of righteousness and be given power to overcome...
Today, people such as yourself are embracing that Jesus died for them, but they reject the rest of the gospel-that we must be brought to life spiritually, follow Him, and obey His words. That is called 'faith'...And that is what it means to 'believe'.
Do you believe in Jesus? Do you really trust that He is the way and so you follow? If you are following Him, you are not in darkness and you are on the path of salvation.That is why we are told-do not turn to the left or to the right.... Remain steadfast and unmovable. The word is a light to our path. If you read the parable of the ten virgins, you may be able to understand the difference between being in darkness or being in the light.
Once again-you said;
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Yah....get away.....he never knew them. Nothing there about "you didn't do enough to earn my favor".
Again, you are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with their 'good deeds'. It has nothing to do with whether they 'earned His favor'. The point is-they were not born again. Jesus did not live in them and therefore did not know them... We are told to test the spirits to see 'whether they be of God' for a good reason.
Let's look at that Galatians verse in the KJV and see what has conveniently been omitted from your translation:
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Your version removes that very important phrase and thus you are the foolish one who has been 'bewitched' by a false gospel that doesn't require obedience for salvation. Your Bible is corrupt ...(That's a whole 'nother' subject).
Did you read on? What is "obeying the truth?" Is it to live by the Law? Read verse 2. Did you get saved by the works of the Law? Or by hearing with faith?
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You said:
You are dead wrong:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Nope....sorry. Try again. Jesus said IF you love him, you'll keep his words. He didn't say to keep his words and earn God's love. Nope....the ones that love him will do it. They are the ones that God loves.
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Scripture is consistent when you have a trustworthy translation...
So get one! I heartily recommend the ESV. The NASB is also very good.
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You said:
Absolutely, Jesus paid for our sins with His death. That by itself doesn't give us life though. We must be born again (quickened).
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
When Jesus said 'unless you are born again you will not enter the Kingdom of God', He wasn't kidding...
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Are you still doing those things or has Jesus given you the power to overcome them? That is true salvation. If you are led of the Spirit, you are not under the law-The gospel of 'grace' is to be led by the Holy Spirit in the way of righteousness and be given power to overcome...
Today, people such as yourself are embracing that Jesus died for them, but they reject the rest of the gospel-that we must be brought to life spiritually, follow Him, and obey His words. That is called 'faith'...And that is what it means to 'believe'.
Do you believe in Jesus? Do you really trust that He is the way and so you follow? If you are following Him, you are not in darkness and you are on the path of salvation.That is why we are told-do not turn to the left or to the right.... Remain steadfast and unmovable. The word is a light to our path. If you read the parable of the ten virgins, you may be able to understand the difference between being in darkness or being in the light.
So Jesus saves...but not quite? You think it's up to you to keep his love?
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Once again-you said;
Again, you are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with their 'good deeds'. It has nothing to do with whether they 'earned His favor'. The point is-they were not born again. Jesus did not live in them and therefore did not know them... We are told to test the spirits to see 'whether they be of God' for a good reason.
TC
Again...how is one born again? Is it by human will or effort? What does John 1:12 say? How about John 3?
You're no different than the Galatians that believed the Gospel....then thought they had to keep their righteousness by good deeds.
Grace is not merely umerited favor but it is APPROVAL. God favors everyone but only Approves of those He has chosen to at this time.
Grace is a Gift. If anyone does the will of God they do so by Christ in them and not by their own will. Therefore, it is Christ in one that does God's Will for they themselves are in capable by their own will.
Dear tret,
I think if one reads carefully to the testimony of Yeshua, that Yeshua indicates that he is in heaven (John 14:16), and it is the annointing of the Spirit of God (1 John 2:27) which guides the children of God, and not "Christ in one". The Spirit of God does not dwell in the individual who "the evil is present within me" (Romans 7:21). That type of thinking is of the false prophet who is denied by Yeshua in Mt 7:23, " I never knew you". "you who practice lawlessness". ( Romans 7:6)
Paul's indwelling evil spirit (Romans 7:21) is best described by Paul as a "messenger of Satan". (2 Cor 12:7)
As for "God favors everyone", that would be a sentiment fostered by the staff "Favor" of Ze 11:10, who was the staff taken to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Ze 11:7). A staff/shepherd one would be best to stay clear of.
Dear tret,
I think if one reads carefully to the testimony of Yeshua, that Yeshua indicates that he is in heaven (John 14:16), and it is the annointing of the Spirit of God (1 John 2:27) which guides the children of God, and not "Christ in one". The Spirit of God does not dwell in the individual who "the evil is present within me" (Romans 7:21). That type of thinking is of the false prophet who is denied by Yeshua in Mt 7:23, " I never knew you". "you who practice lawlessness". ( Romans 7:6)
Paul's indwelling evil spirit (Romans 7:21) is best described by Paul as a "messenger of Satan". (2 Cor 12:7)
As for "God favors everyone", that would be a sentiment fostered by the staff "Favor" of Ze 11:10, who was the staff taken to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Ze 11:7). A staff/shepherd one would be best to stay clear of.
Jesus is in the Kindom of Heaven, and that Kindom is in the Heart of Believers. So Yes Christ does dwell in the believer.
Jesus is in the Kindom of Heaven, and that Kindom is in the Heart of Believers. So Yes Christ does dwell in the believer.
And it will be a real one on earth too. Oh the "within you" does not mean in your heart.
Bad exegesis.
KJV Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. KJV Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Three major Lexicons on the word 'within.
2189 evnto,j prep. with gen. within, in the midst of, among; to. evÅ what is inside, contents (of a cup)
83.9 me,soj, h, on ; avna. me,son ; evnto,j ; evn ; meta, ; eivj ; evpi, ; pro,j ; para,: a position within an area determined by other objects and distributed among such objects - 'among, with.'
1899 evnto,j
evnto,j, adverb ((from evn, opposed to evkto,j), within, inside: with the genitive evnto,j u`mw/n, within you, i. e. in the midst of you, Luke 17:21
Plus he was talking to unbelieving Pharisees who did not have God's kingdom within them, BUT.... Christ the King was among them, an unknown to them.
Did you read on? What is "obeying the truth?" Is it to live by the Law? Read verse 2. Did you get saved by the works of the Law? Or by hearing with faith?
Nope....sorry. Try again. Jesus said IF you love him, you'll keep his words. He didn't say to keep his words and earn God's love. Nope....the ones that love him will do it. They are the ones that God loves.
So get one! I heartily recommend the ESV. The NASB is also very good.
So Jesus saves...but not quite? You think it's up to you to keep his love?
Again...how is one born again? Is it by human will or effort? What does John 1:12 say? How about John 3?
You're no different than the Galatians that believed the Gospel....then thought they had to keep their righteousness by good deeds.
Lets see...You said;
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Again...how is one born again? Is it by human will or effort? What does John 1:12 say? How about John 3?
So lets see what John 1:12 is saying when compared to other relevant scriptures..
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Compare that with the rest of these;
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Are you seeing a pattern yet...? It is the word of God written into our hearts by the Holy Spirit that makes us 'born again';
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jesus said it very clearly in John 6;
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
That is Christianity 101...but it is not being taught in today's churches. See-the 'Law' was carnal ordinances written on tables of stone- 'grace' is the spiritual words of Christ-written by the Holy Spirit into our heart...
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Have you not read the parable of the sower...? I don't think you have a firm grasp of the Gospel, so you cannot discern that the 'Bible version' you use is filled with corrupt seed...You will always remain on the milk of the word and never be spiritually minded with the new versions-they are the seed that Satan is using to sow tares in these last days...(Again that is another topic).
Hopefully you understand now that obeying the truth is paramount to salvation because the word of God is our guide...Jesus words are like a GPS in a fallen world- pointing us in the right direction. They must become a part of the fabric of our heart and influence our lives...That is the true grace that bringeth salvation.
Act 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
TC
Last edited by The Town Crier; 08-27-2014 at 03:51 PM..
Ah yes, another works thread. When I read the OP, it actually made the case for unmerited favor.
Now, the OP says it's human will and effort that makes us born again. He also said that we need to earn God's love.
Yes, who needs Jesus? We don't! We can do it all ourselves!
And I continue to wonder why people don't want to come to Christ with all this nonsense about works, self-effort and condemnation.
What a load.
You obviously do not understand 'works' VS 'grace...
'Works' is not being born again yet doing a bunch of good deeds like feeding the poor,donating gifts, trying to do your best etc...
Grace is the power of God- when you are led by the Spirit and doing things according to His will and power that is 'by grace' lest you should boast...
'God giveth grace to the humble but resists the proud-humble yourself therefore to God'...Humbling yourself to God is not works- it is obedience to the gospel. You stumble at the words of God because of pride...
I hope the OP does not think he/she is smarter than Paul. The Book of Romans talks about grace and salvation.
Romans tells us that grace - is not earned. Otherwise it is wages, and not a gift.
The Bible also says that God rains on the just and the unjust alike. That means God gives even the unjust grace by giving rain and other things that come from his general grace on the earth. So just because you have that kind of grace, does NOT mean God approves of you, but that you get it anyway.
Grace is free and you do not EVER earn it, so that you can boast. It must be just received.
Now sanctification is a PRODUCT or EVIDENCE that one has been transformed into a new creature, and is happening every day, and true, God's grace enables us to walk in the way God says to.
Salvation is NOT earned, bought, bribed, etc. It is received.
Grace is unmerited favor because we do not deserve it, and that is the "unmerited" part.
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