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Let this old Christian turned Universalist turned agnostic weigh in on this one, I appreciate the candor. This is exactly the reason I am an agnostic atheist now, the contradictions of an eternal hell. It's what started the whole journey....which isn't over btw. I had a religious conversation with my Mother today and it was very interesting. It made me see something that I never really put together although it's fairly simple.....there IS evidence of some sort of what the bible speaks of.....good and evil exists. It's something tangible that is definitely highlighted in the bible so I'm off on another journey to connect the dots. What can I say, it interests me.
One agnostic to another, I agree. It is interesting.
Love this article. The Christian idea of hell is SO FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS.
And also...
Hell makes no sense.
I expect typical responses along the lines of "this is just softening of Christianity" and a whole host other fallacies that don't actually address the point.
Interesting article. But one can make a sound argument that argues against the concept of "hell" as a place of eternal torment from... the Bible.
First it is important to understand the differences between Sheol/Hades, "hell" and Gehenna. Some Bibles rather influential Bibles didn't translate these terms well.
Second to believe the Bible teaches that hell is a place of eternal torment means ignoring all those scriptures that tell us what happens when we die and to ignore the context of others that purportedly support the idea of a hell as a place of eternal torment.
When we die all thought ceases, there is no more dreaming, scheming, devising, etc. it's as God defined death in the beginning... we return to the ground... to dust.
Do righteous people go to Sheol/Hades "hell"?
Job 14:13
Genesis 35:37
Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 146:4
Isaiah 38:18,19
Yet none sing the praises of God because again there is no conscious existence when we die
Jesus himself explained death in John 11:11-14. We also know that those "asleep" in death (as Jesus put it) await resurrection
1 Corinthians 15:18
1 Peter 3,4
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
I find Revelation 20:13, 14 interesting...
"13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."
Think of the above for just a moment...if there is a literal place of fiery torment what sense is there to say that death and Hades are thrown in there? It wouldn't make sense if hell ( as many people think of it...a fiery place of torture) is a literal place. It DOES make sense if it is a state of eternal destruction.
It seems that when people think of hell as a place of eternal torment they are really thinking of Gehenna. Gehenna is reserved for people who are especially wicked. Jesus referred to Gehenna and his listeners and followers would have understood the reference to Gehenna since it was Jerusalem's garbage dump. Fires were kept burning to reduce rubbish to ash and no doubt keep vermin at bay. It was a place where the bodies of dead people who were deemed not worthy of a burial were dumped. Apparently, Adam and Eve, the first humans to rebel against God, some Pharisees, and people of Sodom and Gomorrah are in Gehenna.Yet Jesus was speaking not of a place where live people are tormented but the destruction of the very wicked. A fitting symbol for final destruction.
Hell makes no sense as a punishment from a benevolent god. The idea of hell could make sense if it was a self imposed separation. I love Lewis's idea of Hell. Please read if you get the chance.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
How can one burn for eternity, is they were supposed to "perish" and Perish means to die. You would have to be alive for eternity to burn for eternity.
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
How can one burn for eternity, is they were supposed to "perish" and Perish means to die. You would have to be alive for eternity to burn for eternity.
Apollumi (destroy) refers to utter devastation. But as the noted Greek scholar W. E. Vine explains, “The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being†(An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words [Westwood, N.J.: Revel, 1940]). The term is often used in the New Testament to indicate eternal damnation (see, e.g., Mt 10:28; Lk 13:3; Jn 3:16; Ro. 2:12), which applies to unbelievers. But even with that meaning the word does not connote extinction, as annihilationists claim, but rather spiritual calamity that will continue forever. (MacArthur, J: Romans 9-16. Chicago: Moody Press or Logos) Romans 2:9-12 Commentary
When the beast and the false prophet are sent to the lake of fire when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation they are in conscious existance and in torment one thousand years later when Satan joins them in the lake of fire and it said that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 19:20 - 20:10). Even after having been in the lake of fire for a thousand years Revelation states that they will be tormented forever. That is not annihilation. You have to know and understand what the Bible actually teaches and then you either believe it or you don't.
Apollumi (destroy) refers to utter devastation. But as the noted Greek scholar W. E. Vine explains, “The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being” (An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words [Westwood, N.J.: Revel, 1940]). The term is often used in the New Testament to indicate eternal damnation (see, e.g., Mt 10:28; Lk 13:3; Jn 3:16; Ro. 2:12), which applies to unbelievers. But even with that meaning the word does not connote extinction, as annihilationists claim, but rather spiritual calamity that will continue forever. (MacArthur, J: Romans 9-16. Chicago: Moody Press or Logos) Romans 2:9-12 Commentary
When the beast and the false prophet are sent to the lake of fire when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation they are in conscious existance and in torment one thousand years later when Satan joins them in the lake of fire and it said that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 19:20 - 20:10). Even after having been in the lake of fire for a thousand years Revelation states that they will be tormented forever. That is not annihilation. You have to know and understand what the Bible actually teaches and then you either believe it or you don't.
You die at 18 unsaved, you are doomed for a eternity of suffering? So God created man kind to live 120 years tops and if they do repent, they will suffer for all eternity in a fiery blaze that never ends? Yeah that sounds like a Loving God.
Many Christians will be in hell for being luke warm aka being saved young, but always living in sin afterwards like they were never saved to begin with, by living the very lifestyles the bible says that people will not inherit the kingdom if they live those ways.
I believe in Hell and many will go there for unbelief, but I also believe they will die after X amount of time that God sees fit for their punishment. The bible says hell was made for the devil and his angels. I dont think being unrepentant makes you a messenger of the devil, but thats just my opinion and I could be wrong.
You die at 18 unsaved, you are doomed for a eternity of suffering? So God created man kind to live 120 years tops and if they do repent, they will suffer for all eternity in a fiery blaze that never ends? Yeah that sounds like a Loving God.
Many Christians will be in hell for being luke warm aka being saved young, but always living in sin afterwards like they were never saved to begin with, by living the very lifestyles the bible says that people will not inherit the kingdom if they live those ways.
I believe in Hell and many will go there for unbelief, but I also believe they will die after X amount of time that God sees fit for their punishment. The bible says hell was made for the devil and his angels. I dont think being unrepentant makes you a messenger of the devil, but thats just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Again, the beast and the false prophet even after having been in the lake of fire for a thousand years will continue to be tormented forever and ever as Revelation 19:20- 20:10 show. As I said, you either believe the Bible or you don't. And no Christian will ever go to the lake of fire.
You believe what you want. I choose to believe the Bible.
You die at 18 unsaved, you are doomed for a eternity of suffering? So God created man kind to live 120 years tops and if they do repent, they will suffer for all eternity in a fiery blaze that never ends? Yeah that sounds like a Loving God.
Many Christians will be in hell for being luke warm aka being saved young, but always living in sin afterwards like they were never saved to begin with, by living the very lifestyles the bible says that people will not inherit the kingdom if they live those ways.
I believe in Hell and many will go there for unbelief, but I also believe they will die after X amount of time that God sees fit for their punishment. The bible says hell was made for the devil and his angels. I dont think being unrepentant makes you a messenger of the devil, but thats just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Hi,
The dead are unconscious (dead), so it matters very little what is happening there. Next Satan and the demons are NOT in Hell, as the TWO words Sheol( Hebrew) and Hades (Greek) are not used with them. The word for where the "spirits" are, which refers to the demons, is prison, not hell. They are restrained.
Gehenna a reference to the garbage dump, and the Lake of Fire are symbolic of final disposal with no resurrection to life. Dead forever. The Jews, who heard this word used, knew what it meant. Gone for good and no retrieval.
The only Biblical hope, therefore not something to be afraid of, for life after death is the resurrection and it is of:
NAB Acts 24:15 I have the same hope in God as they themselves have that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.
Interesting article. But one can make a sound argument that argues against the concept of "hell" as a place of eternal torment from... the Bible.
First it is important to understand the differences between Sheol/Hades, "hell" and Gehenna. Some Bibles rather influential Bibles didn't translate these terms well.
Second to believe the Bible teaches that hell is a place of eternal torment means ignoring all those scriptures that tell us what happens when we die and to ignore the context of others that purportedly support the idea of a hell as a place of eternal torment.
When we die all thought ceases, there is no more dreaming, scheming, devising, etc. it's as God defined death in the beginning... we return to the ground... to dust.
Do righteous people go to Sheol/Hades "hell"?
Job 14:13
Genesis 35:37
Psalm 6:5; 16:10; 146:4
Isaiah 38:18,19
Yet none sing the praises of God because again there is no conscious existence when we die
Jesus himself explained death in John 11:11-14. We also know that those "asleep" in death (as Jesus put it) await resurrection
1 Corinthians 15:18
1 Peter 3,4
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
I find Revelation 20:13, 14 interesting...
"13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."
Think of the above for just a moment...if there is a literal place of fiery torment what sense is there to say that death and Hades are thrown in there? It wouldn't make sense if hell ( as many people think of it...a fiery place of torture) is a literal place. It DOES make sense if it is a state of eternal destruction.
It seems that when people think of hell as a place of eternal torment they are really thinking of Gehenna. Gehenna is reserved for people who are especially wicked. Jesus referred to Gehenna and his listeners and followers would have understood the reference to Gehenna since it was Jerusalem's garbage dump. Fires were kept burning to reduce rubbish to ash and no doubt keep vermin at bay. It was a place where the bodies of dead people who were deemed not worthy of a burial were dumped. Apparently, Adam and Eve, the first humans to rebel against God, some Pharisees, and people of Sodom and Gomorrah are in Gehenna.Yet Jesus was speaking not of a place where live people are tormented but the destruction of the very wicked. A fitting symbol for final destruction.
This is one of the issues where I have to differ from my mom. She grew up Pena costal and refuses to accept anything other than the traditional literal hell of fire and brimstone. I find it harder to believe in a literal hell because of the contradictions and verses like you list here. Also, if you look at other descriptions regarding the judgement, it is even more difficult to believe it is literal. For example, does God really sit on a massive throne, a big chair? Is there really this massive book called The Lambs book of life? Yet, kings sat on thrones during those days so the descriptions were for the audience of that time period.
Dave Reagan wrote an excellent article on this topic:
Quote:
In defining any doctrine, everything the Bible has to say about the issue must be considered. Concerning the issue of Hell, the only way I have been able to incorporate all that the Bible has to say is to conclude:
Those who die outside a faith relationship with Jesus are initially confined to a compartment in Hades called Torments.
At the end of the Millennium, they will be resurrected and judged of their works by Jesus at the Great White Throne Judgment.
All of them will be condemned to Hell because no one can be justified before God by their works.
They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell) where they will suffer a time of torment in proportion to their sins.
They will then experience the "second death" (death of body, soul and spirit).
I can safely say that it is safe to let go of all thoughts of eternal hell being anything other than a legend. You will not go there for not believing in it, nor will God start bringing bad #### into your life to force you back into believing in it. Again it is safe to let it go. You will feel real good if you do and feel freedom and relief like you have never known before. You will find that you can serve the Lord in gladness instead of fear. Let it go.
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