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Over the past 2-3 years years (now more attending, than teaching/preaching), I've noticed a transition in church worship services. For one thing, only the singing and music part of the service is often referred to as "Worship"(?). For another, there seems to be a growing tendency to keep folks on their feet singing for 20+-minutes (which, sometimes leaves me feeling a little tired and manipulated) -- followed by a 20-minute 'lite' sermon.
I'm sorry but in no way is 20 minutes a lite sermon. I remember some sage advice given years ago when it came to preaching. Make sure you have driven home your point by 12-14 minutes and you are winding down at 15-16 minutes because if you are talking past the 17 minute mark the only one listening is you. The rest of the congregation has tuned you out, so shut up.
My belief is if you can't get your message across in that time frame, then you don't have a clear message and are talking to try and convince yourself of what you have to say. There are exceptions of course, but if the regular length of a sermon is that long - that is a bible study, not a sermon.
Remember it is the quality of the message, not the length of it or the quantity of words spoken.
I'm sorry but in no way is 20 minutes a lite sermon. I remember some sage advice given years ago when it came to preaching. Make sure you have driven home your point by 12-14 minutes and you are winding down at 15-16 minutes because if you are talking past the 17 minute mark the only one listening is you. The rest of the congregation has tuned you out, so shut up.
My belief is if you can't get your message across in that time frame, then you don't have a clear message and are talking to try and convince yourself of what you have to say. There are exceptions of course, but if the regular length of a sermon is that long - that is a bible study, not a sermon.
Remember it is the quality of the message, not the length of it or the quantity of words spoken.
I agree! I wasn't really speaking about the time, as the 'lite' depth of the content. As you point-out, a good 15-20 minute sermon that keeps folks listening, is more difficult than a longer sermon. At 30-40 minutes, it is a Bible Study/Sermon that really challenges folks to bring and get into their Bible ... and learn something. This format is particularly important in 'street ministry' (missions, prisons, halfway houses) - when many only rarely or sporadically get into either a church or a Bible.
(In a church pulpit, I've always held it to a 15-20 minute sermon, even though many folks there are often less knowledgeable about their Bibles, than in the streets!)
I'm sorry but in no way is 20 minutes a lite sermon. I remember some sage advice given years ago when it came to preaching. Make sure you have driven home your point by 12-14 minutes and you are winding down at 15-16 minutes because if you are talking past the 17 minute mark the only one listening is you. The rest of the congregation has tuned you out, so shut up.
My belief is if you can't get your message across in that time frame, then you don't have a clear message and are talking to try and convince yourself of what you have to say. There are exceptions of course, but if the regular length of a sermon is that long - that is a bible study, not a sermon.
Remember it is the quality of the message, not the length of it or the quantity of words spoken.
Many years ago while in college, our church invited a ministerial student from the college to preach the evening message. My wife and I were seated near the rear of a fairly good sized church that could seat 300. The student finally got to the pulpit and opened with these words, "Tonight I have seventeen points I want to make."
It was like seeing a wave wash from the front to the back of the church! Fortunately, it only took him fifteen minutes to preach (or should I say read) the seventeen points. He hadn't yet had the homilitecs class of "three points and a poem!"
I haven't stood in a pulpit for a few years now (bad back), but I usually ran 30-35 minutes and was a perennial lay speaker in our church in Kentucky--and filled in for the pastor if he was sick or out of town. I learned the old "tell them what you're going to talk about, talk about it, then tell them what you told them" school. The shortest message I ever had was a monologue sermon entitled Pilate at Midnight, where I role played being Pontius Pilate some three or four years after the crucifixion where Pilate recounts his time in Judea to an old friend following a dinner party. It isn't original with me, but I heard it one time and never forgot it. A great Easter message.
He hadn't yet had the homilitecs class of "three points and a poem!"
I haven't stood in a pulpit for a few years now (bad back), but I usually ran 30-35 minutes and was a perennial lay speaker in our church in Kentucky--and filled in for the pastor if he was sick or out of town. I learned the old "tell them what you're going to talk about, talk about it, then tell them what you told them" school. The shortest message I ever had was a monologue sermon entitled Pilate at Midnight, where I role played being Pontius Pilate some three or four years after the crucifixion where Pilate recounts his time in Judea to an old friend following a dinner party. It isn't original with me, but I heard it one time and never forgot it. A great Easter message.
I have never preached using the three points. Nor do I do the tell them etc. My sermons weave a story of questions and puzzlement, by the end everyone is sitting asking themselves one or two questions about themselves, ones they ponder all week long. If we aren't thinking, then what is the point.
What amazes me is howusic is used to manipulate emotions. Some pastors keep that pianist on call for the alter call. Music is very effective. It is not by mistake that the fast songs come first, then the slow songs. Then even songs during the beggin of money and during the alter call.
Music is nice, but be aware of how it is used to manipulate.
What amazes me is howusic is used to manipulate emotions. Some pastors keep that pianist on call for the alter call. Music is very effective. It is not by mistake that the fast songs come first, then the slow songs. Then even songs during the beggin of money and during the alter call.
Music is nice, but be aware of how it is used to manipulate.
I used to play in the music group at a few churches. I played...well...a trumpet. It is difficult to mix the horn with most groups containing guitars, keyboards, drums, etc, but if done correctly, it can be a good addition. The biggest problem that I had with playing music in church was that I didn't want to key on people's emotions, or be a part of something that was manipulative, as music can be sometimes. It has only been recently that God has shown me the importance of music in worship.
Many of us come to a service wanting to hear from God through a message, and many times we are in varying states of mind. The Lord showed me that, just as scripture says, the mind is usually opposed to the Spirit. It is a carnal part of our being. It is where we make decisions, where thoughts of fear, loneiness, happiness, joy, and a thousand other things are taking place. For those of us that know the Lord, the Spirit that we have received from God is connected with God and our Spirit doesn't follow the ups and downs of life as our soul (mind) does. Music can lift our souls out of the death of this earth, and lift us into the spiritual realm. I've been in services where an inspiring short word was given and then music. This short word often helped to lift our souls into the sure realm of Spirituality. But most of the time, it was the duty of the musicians to lift the souls of the congregation through music. There are many types of music, but the most important thing in these songs is truth. The musicians also need to be given to God, and not on a "show" attitude. Songs that give a wrong theology often fall flat and cannot lift. Fast, energetic songs are the most effective in breaking down the barriers that people bring along with them. After one or two of these, the slower, more meaningful songs can inspire and lift the soul, and bring it into harmony with the Spirit, and things like repentance and understanding the depth of the given message is more easily broken through to the mind, which then can help to transform the soul.
Music is no determiner of whether or not a person will commit himself to Jesus, but it does bring down the walls that separate us from feeling closer to God. The soul is a deceitful thing, and we all have one, but music can be an effective vehicle to help us to forget guilt that we may have, and even deliver us into God's presence. If it were not for the soul trying to "save" itself, we would all seek God with reckless abandon. Music can be an amazingly powerful tool if used right, and even King Saul's evil spirit departed from him when David played his music. It just cleanses the air in the spirit.
I also used to have trouble in a service thinking that the person that was there, (and was a known sinner), could actually dare to worship our God. The Lord showed me that I was a mortal sinner too, and that everyone is in a unique life situation, and I had better not judge the other person. Then I realized that all people are free to worship God as they greak through their own soulish barriers. Music is a miracle from God, and anyone that is a musician can realize its complexity, just as much as we can be astounded at the makeup of the human body, or the mathematical genius behind the structure of the universe. It shows God's Glory!
Just to say...2-3 songs, as some have mentioned, I think is fine. (Lucky...)
Truly 35 minutes is just too much for me...I do see some people
that seem to know the format and slip in at the last song, disrupting nothing
I smile at how smart they are.
And yes music is very inspiring...I listen to the Christian station all day for years.
Btw, I attend what I call super Spirit filled services...the pastors are very inspired, alot of Bible teaching.
I have gone to friends' churches they want me to and their pastors seem to be reading a speech
they wrote, referring to their notes...
or like a professor wrote...no passion, very dry.
BUT, their musicians and acoustics can blow you away! Make you cry they are so soulful and professional...
now 35-40 min of them is great! (Similar to an Anita Baker and a Micheal McDonald concert together! And they
have 3 services every Sunday.)
I have never preached using the three points. Nor do I do the tell them etc. My sermons weave a story of questions and puzzlement, by the end everyone is sitting asking themselves one or two questions about themselves, ones they ponder all week long. If we aren't thinking, then what is the point.
Yes, there is a vast difference between telling them and teaching them. Most just tell them.
I went to a large Methodist Church in So Cal one time and attended the collegiate class taught by the Pastor's son.
Lets see:
Opened with a song of about 5 minutes
A short prayer
Another song
Passed the plate for offerings
Discussed for about 10 minutes the last party at the beach organized by the church
A short song
A short prayer
Passed the plate
Discussed the next party at the beach
Had a member play a few songs on his guitar
Spoke briefly about a mission about to go to Mexico and play baseball
Passed the plate for the "mission"
A short song
A short closing prayer
BIG church, lots of members. and well ............................................
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