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im not anti catholic but i am anti child rape and anti illegal immigration.
at times the catholic church members act like their loyalty to the vatican is above that of its loyalty to america and its laws.
The Pope is in Italy not America and anyway he is the head of the Catholic Church. A Church, not a country like America, only a small Vatican state.
As a Catholic and an American I look to the Church for spiritual things and to America for secular things.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,933,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
Do you believe Paul existed? How about the men who wrote the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
If your talking to me, then yes, history tells us Paul was a real person. No one has affirmed historically that the four gospel writers actually existed. The gospels of course were written after Paul wrote his various contributions to the NT.
If we want to get into Paul, we can have long discussion of how this Jewish Rabbi ended up teaching illiterate, superstitious, poor fishermen and generally the rejects of society. His rabbinical and Stoic background appealed for various reason, but that is a longer treatise I don't want to get into at this point. Perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate.
If your talking to me, then yes, history tells us Paul was a real person. No one has affirmed historically that the four gospel writers actually existed. The gospels of course were written after Paul wrote his various contributions to the NT.
If we want to get into Paul, we can have long discussion of how this Jewish Rabbi ended up teaching illiterate, superstitious, poor fishermen and generally the rejects of society. His rabbinical and Stoic background appealed for various reason, but that is a longer treatise I don't want to get into at this point. Perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate.
So Paul must have been crazy to believe Jesus was real than. Paul knew Peter and Peter was close to Jesus. Paul believed Peter about Jesus. That is good enough for me but I guess not for you.
at times the catholic church members act like their loyalty to the vatican is above that of its loyalty to america and its laws.
I would say in many cases, they should be. If you are a pro-life Catholic Christian, are you going to be "loyal" to pro-choice laws in America? Certainly not.
Also as a general response to other posters - I don't think the understanding of the word "denomination" is justified when applying it to the Roman Catholic Church. That tends to describe the endless splits of Protestant doctrine. Part of the problem I see with "Protestant" non-denominational Christianity is everyone thinks they need to come up with some original, up and coming, angle of thinking that can't be too close to the guy before. It's really becoming a mess.
I actually enjoyed my short time in childhood in a classical Pentecostal congregation. Later on my mother took me to the "Vineyard" churches ... they are a very new denomination ... Later I've found out they are a watered down version of the Pent's and Charis, a little more general and inclusive to mainstream folks. I couldn't stand how commercialized those people were. But that's a roundabout way of describing what "Denominations" are within the Protestant split realm.
There are now pro-gay marriage pastors in the Vineyard church, regardless of their doctrine, and split off's from it that now play top-40 intertwined with their praise and worship music in an almost ironic totally anti-leadership and tradion or liturgy sense.
No one seems to be truly nurturing believers in these new charismatic non-denominational circles, from my experience. It is really pick up a Bible and hurry up and come up with your own understanding in your short lifetime. Polarizing to me now that I look back on it.
So Paul must have been crazy to believe Jesus was real than. Paul knew Peter and Peter was close to Jesus. Paul believed Peter about Jesus. That is good enough for me but I guess not for you.
I believe that often we can find out more about a time in history and the people by reading fiction/literature rather than history books full of supposed "facts".
I did read a couple of years ago about some new archaeological discovery that gave more proof that Jesus really existed, but I never really took a lot of time to read about it. If no "real" proof was ever found though, does that indeed prove he never existed? No, it does not. Maybe there were people who wanted to make sure no one would ever find proof. Maybe all that doesn't really matter.
So, did Socrates ever exist? What proof is there that he did?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,933,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
There's no point in even debating you on this. You are in the small minority. It's just fact.
Then I throw out the challenge to you also.
Name me four concurrent reports that are not in the bible that talk about Jesus. There are none even of that fantastic scene of all those zombies supposedly seem by hundreds in Jerusalem. Not even one Roman report about that.
There were a lot of messianic Jews wandering around 2100 years ago. There was only ONE supposed eruption of zombies walking around.
No one else reported it. Why? Because it didn't happen.
You know why people, especially today, hate the Catholic Church? Because it tells them how sinful they are. They hate the Church because she is pro-life... because the Church has not succumbed to modern-day political pressures like all other protestant churches have when it comes to moral issues. As if truth could be altered by men!!! Outrageous!The Church has remain true to Christ's teachings. And the world has fallen so much into the abyss of sin that they hate Christ. The Church is Christ. Remember, before they hated you they hated me, Jesus Christ told us.
I was baptised Catholic and went to Catholic Schools and I cannot beleive someone would actually state the above as a fact merely because of all of the sex abuse throughout the years that has been proven to have happened.
Also, I know a diocese that has been excommunicated, the entire diocese because they would not cave into pressure from the Bishop to just give control of the Church, buildings, land and funds to the Bishop.
There has never been any control over any of these things outside of those members of the Church.
They have no debt, a very big congregation, own absolutely everything and have millions of dollars in savings and investments.
Every Religion has good and bad and every human has good and bad so there is no blanket statement that can be made about any of it.
Besides the Catholics use only a small portion of the Bible for Mass but it was never used for "Bible Study" like so many other Religions use it.
To answer the original question I will ask a question: Why do some humans feel the need to "confront" anyone about their beliefs or lack of?
I was baptised Catholic and went to Catholic Schools and I cannot beleive someone would actually state the above as a fact merely because of all of the sex abuse throughout the years that has been proven to have happened.
Also, I know a diocese that has been excommunicated, the entire diocese because they would not cave into pressure from the Bishop to just give control of the Church, buildings, land and funds to the Bishop.
There has never been any control over any of these things outside of those members of the Church.
They have no debt, a very big congregation, own absolutely everything and have millions of dollars in savings and investments.
Every Religion has good and bad and every human has good and bad so there is no blanket statement that can be made about any of it.
Besides the Catholics use only a small portion of the Bible for Mass but it was never used for "Bible Study" like so many other Religions use it.
To answer the original question I will ask a question: Why do some humans feel the need to "confront" anyone about their beliefs or lack of?
yay for whomever that is and honestly I don't care what her or anyone else thinks about it and I don't go to websites posted in a link by others.
My beliefs are my own, their beliefs are their own and I do not feel the need to confront anyone about their beliefs.
It is equal to me telling someone that their favorite color should be purple not blue because purple is my favorite color and I believe that my favorite is the ONLY color that should be someone's favorite color.
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