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Actually, one person was the translator of The Book of Mormon. Wordprint analyses strongly indicate that the original words were written by numerous different individuals.
But since this thread is about Catholicism, this is neither the time or the place for us to debate further on Mormonism. I just wanted to comment on that one statement.
I asked the question first, rephrasing it does nothing for the credibility of proving a historicity of Jesus. You see, it is the Jesus of the bible, with all those supposed miracles, that would stick out.
The 147 words in Josephus are widely considered to be a forgery added afterwards. Regardless, there is no contemporaneous written record of the Jesus of the bible outside of the bible.
None. Or of any of the phantasmagorical happenings, you know, like all those zombies getting out of graves and walking around Jerusalem, "seen by many".
Again, nice deflection, but it cuts no ice.
Athronges, the Prophet of Gerizim, Theudas, and the unnamed Jewish Egyptian "prophet." Should be easy to prove if your claim that there is ample Roman attestation of that period and era is correct, Cupper3. Still waiting for your response.
I'll make it easier for you. You don't have to produce 4 sources for each, only one outside Josephus. No one has denied the existence of those 4, and there have been no claims that Josephus falsified them (why would he?)
You say that you asked the question first, and I gave you two examples of non-Biblical attestations. Actually, there are more, in the writings of members of the early Church that are not included in the Biblical texts that attest to a shared early belief in this, including Irenaeus, Ignatius of Antioch, Origen, and Jerome. Ignatius is particularly interesting in that the information he believed was passed on by John, who does not himself directly reference the event.
You also have not addressed the scholarship that I quoted in depth to show why Josephus's two references to Jesus are not "widely considered to be a forgery," although there is evidence that text was added to later copies. That still leaves the remaining references to Jesus that the majority of scholars accept.
Nor do you explain why Roman texts, if they even existed, would include references to miracles performed by a Jewish rabbi, who had little direct dealings with Romans before his arrest and execution, except for a centurion who came to him with a request for a miracle - an individual who would be VERY unlikely to document such a request in an official Roman document.
Nor have you addressed the reasons I provided why we would be unlikely to find strictly contemporaneous Roman references to Jesus, outside of Josephus, and the Roman textual evidence we would expect to see happens at a time when we would expect to find Roman references.
If I could cite Roman references to anomalous events surrounding the crucifixion that appeared at a later date, would you accept that it is good evidence in support of the Biblical accounts?
Again, please respond with some evidence to support your earlier claim, as I have done for you: Athronges, the Prophet of Gerizim, Theudas, and the unnamed Jewish Egyptian "prophet."
As a former Catholic alterboy, grade school, high school 25 years I appreciate my
Catholoic education, CYO, priests, christian brothers, nuns and decons. My wife
was Luthern and Catholic, but nearly simultaneously we discovered scripture
and he evangelical movement following a short stent in a charismatic basement
fellowship that seemed caugh up in religousity (here we go again a percession
with a end result of bowing and incensing the bible like its a pagan god ! We both
were driven to tears anticipating a bible study not another warped mindset that
insidiously drives idolatry instead of separation. We concluded it was time to
mke our escape from religion, false mediators, intercessoy prayer to saints, dead
Popes, vain repititon of prayers to Mary (God bless Mary). Mariology is heresy!
Catholic church as loving and sacrifcing is a disconnect from its hebrew roots
giving in to the pagan Constantine boycott of the Lords feasts etc. and falling
victim to Niceas perversions. Cathollcs are saved by their belief in Jesus and
not the addon nonesense it perpetuates daily.
Last edited by Inattentive; 09-25-2014 at 07:16 PM..
As a former Catholic alterboy, grade school, high school 25 years I appreciate my
Catholoic education, CYO, priests, christian brothers, nuns and decons. My wife
was Luthern and Catholic, but nearly simultaneously we discovered scripture
and he evangelical movement following a short stent in a charismatic basement
fellowship that seemed caugh up in religousity (here we go again a percession
with a end result of bowing and incensing the bible like its a pagan god ! We both
were driven to tears anticipating a bible study not another warped mindset that
insidiously drives idolatry instead of separation. We concluded it was time to
mke our escape from religion, false mediators, intercessoy prayer to saints, dead
Popes, vain repititon of prayers to Mary (God bless Mary). Mariology is heresy!
Catholic church as loving and sacrifcing is a disconnect from its hebrew roots
giving in to the pagan Constantine boycott of the Lords feasts etc. and falling
victim to Niceas perversions. Cathollcs are saved by their belief in Jesus and
not the addon nonesense it perpetuates daily.
If you really are a former Catholic, why do you not know that "nuns" are in a cloistered convent (the equivalent of monks), and that the women you say helped educate you were "religious sisters," not nuns?
Firstly Mike and all please excuse my spelling errors as I posted while in a
hurry to go on an errand. I 'm using ao tablet with two injured index fingers.
Mike I was taught by Notre Dame nuns in grade school except for a lay teacher
In 5th grade. My 7th grade nun was the organist at my wedding and we actually
visited her at the retirement home in Elm Grove. My aunt sister Elizabeth had
her celebration ( 60 years as a second grade teacher) The cloistering of nuns
is I believe ae thr Carmelites order ( which I now consider insane but well
intended I guess). I was shocked to hearthe uns are buried in pine coffins and
buried two in one grave separated by a few feet of space all part of humiity !
Yours background as in the case of many non catholics is distorted by ignorant
purveyers of info and thought that is crazy. Catholics are victimd of extreme
religousity yet full of many truths, leaders in pro - life, peace inititives, missions
and faith in Jesus Christ His grace and the Godhead (trinity)
As a former Catholic alterboy, grade school, high school 25 years I appreciate my
Catholoic education, CYO, priests, christian brothers, nuns and decons. My wife
was Luthern and Catholic, but nearly simultaneously we discovered scripture
and he evangelical movement following a short stent in a charismatic basement
fellowship that seemed caugh up in religousity (here we go again a percession
with a end result of bowing and incensing the bible like its a pagan god ! We both
were driven to tears anticipating a bible study not another warped mindset that
insidiously drives idolatry instead of separation. We concluded it was time to
mke our escape from religion, false mediators, intercessoy prayer to saints, dead
Popes, vain repititon of prayers to Mary (God bless Mary). Mariology is heresy!
Catholic church as loving and sacrifcing is a disconnect from its hebrew roots
giving in to the pagan Constantine boycott of the Lords feasts etc. and falling
victim to Niceas perversions. Cathollcs are saved by their belief in Jesus and
not the addon nonesense it perpetuates daily.
So many men get influenced by their wives, I see this all the time. They usually convert to their wives religion to keep problems in the family down, if nothing else. So sad you could not influence her in your religion more.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Mike
If you really are a former Catholic, why do you not know that "nuns" are in a cloistered convent (the equivalent of monks), and that the women you say helped educate you were "religious sisters," not nuns?
Just sayin'.
Well, maybe not all orders are the same.
I had two nuns as teachers. They went to the convent at night, but were nuns, habits and all.
Maybe you need to brush up on your Catholicism. The Catholic school was the only one in our district, so I was one of the very few non-Catholics who went to it for 7 years.
Just sayin'
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