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I disagree. There are evil forces in this world that can be utilized by people. These forces are not more powerful than God however, as the Scriptures testify.
As far as prosecution, let's get one thing straight, the Israelites were not confused as to what God meant by 'sorcery' and 'witchcraft'. It was the works of evil, of divination, omen interpretation, etc... These things are still morally wrong in 2014, but there's no civil law against it.
Again, the translation is accurate. Witches and sorcerers or magicians were not doctors.
Murder? I think not. Murder denotes the purposeful killing of an innocent person. An individual who practices sorcery or witchcraft is not innocent. You can claim there is no guilt, but God clearly says otherwise.
As William Lane Craig said:
Interesting, in the Tanakh the Hebrew word employed in that particular verse means rebirth or revival...
How about the witch of Endor?....Why wasn't she killed?...
No. We are not under this law today, as it was meant for the Israelites. However, there is nothing immoral or wrong about this law even if it was still in place today.
LOL!
And still people don't believe me when I say that there is almost no difference between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS.
The ONLY thing standing in their way from grabbing the nearest "witch" (i.e. anyone they dislike) and sawing off her head with a hacksaw and posting the video to YouTube is secular law.
They're out there, ladies and gentlemen ... as the above quote by JJ_Maxx attests.
And still people don't believe me when I say that there is almost no difference between Christian extremists and Muslim extremists like Al Qaeda and ISIS.
The ONLY thing standing in their way from grabbing the nearest "witch" (i.e. anyone they dislike) and sawing off her head with a hacksaw and posting the video to YouTube is secular law.
This is a ridiculous statement.
The state of punishment in ancient Israel is no different than it is in the US today. The government is in authority and finds people guilty of crimes and carries out the punishment, up to and including death.
Now, you might say, "But JJ, we put people to death for bad things like murder, not being a witch."
Well, again, if God exists, then objective morality is grounded in His nature and partaking in the 'evil arts' is rebellion against God and rather than being trivial, is in fact the most heinous crime that can be committed against a perfectly good and powerful God.
Objective morality can only be grounded in God. There is nowhere and no one else it can be grounded in. Any moral statement such as 'murder is wrong' is meaningless without an adequate objective authority and the only adequate objective authority is God.
Getting back to your original statement, it is patently false and shows a deep lack of understanding of what I am saying.
I do not have the authority to carry out punishments for sin against God. God has the authority and He will punish those who sin against Him. For any individual to do so would be just as guilty. God clearly teaches that Christians are to turn the other cheek and love our enemies and pray for them. God loves even witches and we are to love them and bless them. However, if they do not turn from their ways, then they will receive the just punishment they deserve when they stand before God.
That being said, I reject your accusation of any similarity to the horrible, ungodly acts of those groups in the middle east. Their actions run contrary to Christianity and its tenets and therefore can not be compared, except by the uneducated.
The state of punishment in ancient Israel is no different than it is in the US today. The government is in authority and finds people guilty of crimes and carries out the punishment, up to and including death.
Now, you might say, "But JJ, we put people to death for bad things like murder, not being a witch."
Well, again, if God exists, then objective morality is grounded in His nature and partaking in the 'evil arts' is rebellion against God and rather than being trivial, is in fact the most heinous crime that can be committed against a perfectly good and powerful God.
Objective morality can only be grounded in God. There is nowhere and no one else it can be grounded in. Any moral statement such as 'murder is wrong' is meaningless without an adequate objective authority and the only adequate objective authority is God.
Getting back to your original statement, it is patently false and shows a deep lack of understanding of what I am saying.
I do not have the authority to carry out punishments for sin against God. God has the authority and He will punish those who sin against Him. For any individual to do so would be just as guilty. God clearly teaches that Christians are to turn the other cheek and love our enemies and pray for them. God loves even witches and we are to love them and bless them. However, if they do not turn from their ways, then they will receive the just punishment they deserve when they stand before God.
That being said, I reject your accusation of any similarity to the horrible, ungodly acts of those groups in the middle east. Their actions run contrary to Christianity and its tenets and therefore can not be compared, except by the uneducated.
Of course, we condemn those who commit heinous crimes to death. But no one, not even a religious person has the right in the 21st century to condemn a person because of their beliefs. Although, As Shirina pointed out, Christian and Muslim Extremists think that they have some god-given right to do just that.
They do not have any such right, and as we move further away from the dark ages, mankind will realize this. Along the way, the desperate people like JJ, Westboro Baptist and Isis will try, and fail. But as our society evolves away from needing a sky-daddy to dictate morals and we as humans learn that only we as humans can save ourselves, these too will disappear in the future.
Of course, we condemn those who commit heinous crimes to death. But no one, not even a religious person has the right in the 21st century to condemn a person because of their beliefs. Although, As Shirina pointed out, Christian and Muslim Extremists think that they have some god-given right to do just that.
They do not have any such right, and as we move further away from the dark ages, mankind will realize this. Along the way, the desperate people like JJ, Westboro Baptist and Isis will try, and fail. But as our society evolves away from needing a sky-daddy to dictate morals and we as humans learn that only we as humans can save ourselves, these too will disappear in the future.
Once again, people like you are so stuck in your hatred that you completely ignore what people say. It makes it so much easier to degrade and insult them when you misrepresent them, doesn't it?
I never said any of the things you claim I said, nor did I insinuate that I believe what you are claiming I believe. In fact, my last post completely refutes such a belief! Amazing.
God is the only one who has the authority to deliver perfect justice and morality and only He can ultimately judge and condemn a person. This is precisely what God did when He was the authority over the nation of Israel.
It is the epitome of disrespect to completely ignore or misrepresent someone's statements. Even if you vehemently disagree with them, you should still be mature enough to debate using their actual statements, instead of creating straw men and misrepresenting them.
...snip...
It is the epitome of disrespect to completely ignore or misrepresent someone's statements. Even if you vehemently disagree with them, you should still be mature enough to debate using their actual statements, instead of creating straw men and misrepresenting them.
Don't be such a weasel. Your own words reveal you to be no more ethical than a member of ISIS:
Quote:
However, there is nothing immoral or wrong about this law even if it was still in place today.
Don't be such a weasel. Your own words reveal you to be no more ethical than a member of ISIS:
Seriously? You don't know the difference between individual actions and a national penal code? I think we can all agree that locking someone up in your basement for 20 years is wrong, yet the government does this regularly, do they not? The difference is that the government has authority.
I am NOT anything like ISIS, neither is Christianity. We believe that we are to love those who persecute us, bless those who hate us and love God. What part of that involves beheading innocent people? It doesn't.
The section in Exodus the OP is referring to was a penal code for a nation given by God, and as today, it was immoral for an individual to take the same actions against someone else.
So stop your misrepresentation. Witchcraft is an offense against God and He will dispense perfect justice if they do not turn from their ways. Meanwhile, we as Christians are called to love everyone and bless them abundantly.
You spend enough time in this forum, you of all people should know that, even if your only purpose is to be confrontational in every one of your posts.
Seriously? You don't know the difference between individual actions and a national penal code? I think we can all agree that locking someone up in your basement for 20 years is wrong, yet the government does this regularly, do they not? The difference is that the government has authority.
I am NOT anything like ISIS, neither is Christianity. We believe that we are to love those who persecute us, bless those who hate us and love God. What part of that involves beheading innocent people? It doesn't.
The section in Exodus the OP is referring to was a penal code for a nation given by God, and as today, it was immoral for an individual to take the same actions against someone else.
So stop your misrepresentation. Witchcraft is an offense against God and He will dispense perfect justice if they do not turn from their ways. Meanwhile, we as Christians are called to love everyone and bless them abundantly.
You spend enough time in this forum, you of all people should know that, even if your only purpose is to be confrontational in every one of your posts.
So, JJ, the difference between the penal action of executing a witch and not is that you won't do it yourself, but are perfectly happy to have the government do it? So ISIS as government is fine and the point of your ethics being essentially the same is demonstrated.
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