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Many of the first century followers were uneducated and had never seen Jesus in person. They were superstitious and probably would have believed anything that sounded good. It was a turbulent time there in the first century. How many of the poor and outcast people could even read?
Human Reasoning is not going to HELP you here.
Come let us reason TOGETHER saith the Lord.
There is only one thing that God holds in higher regard than HIS NAME
His Promises! His WORD!!
The word "faithful" does not apply to any human on earth.
It is 100% IMPOSSIBLE for God to Lie. He has to honor His Word.
Jesus either told the TRUTH - or he was Lying!
I know.. beyond any shadow of doubt He told the TRUTH.
HOW DO I KNOW?? very simple ... He always honors HIS PROMISES.
We have an awesome loving God who delights to make and keep HIS PROMISES.
there are: 8,964 promises in the BIBLE. pick any one and claim it and stand on it and demand it.
That's how I always get the results I want/need!!
It is not a natural relationship... It is SUPERnatural!!
I always thank God before I ever get the answer. I rejoice & dance!!
Put God on the spot. Pick any promise...........!!!
God always answers EVERY PRAYER. I have over six decades of INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCES - that you would never believe, but the bible says... These signs follow those that believe!!
Many of the first century followers were uneducated ??? Ha !! Obviously you know absolutely nothing about Luke, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Peter and many others.
You need to learn your bible!! Luke wrote the purest form of greek ever recorded in any document on the face of the planet. He is the one who wrote all of the "LEGAL" DOCUMENTS Paul needed when he went to Rome to appear before Nero.
Paul studied @ the feet of the "smartest man on earth" at that time.. Gamiel!!
Get your mind off of OZZY and learn about Jesus Christ!
No one has even attempted to answer my original question. It's as if people don't even want to think of an option of belief that has a LOT of evidence to back it up.
People would rather continue in the belief that the miracles really happened (even though there is no evidence for even one). And that God "wrote" the book instead of humans.
There are so many contradictory BELIEFS in the Bible. Fundamentalists are making themselves crazy trying to justify it all in their minds. When I hear a preacher like that now he just sounds like a lunatic. Even if he were speaking in a different language I would be able to tell that something was wrong with his thinking.
I am so happy and blessed to be free from that insanity.
No one has even attempted to answer my original question. It's as if people don't even want to think of an option of belief that has a LOT of evidence to back it up.
People would rather continue in the belief that the miracles really happened (even though there is no evidence for even one). And that God "wrote" the book instead of humans.
There are so many contradictory BELIEFS in the Bible. Fundamentalists are making themselves crazy trying to justify it all in their minds. When I hear a preacher like that now he just sounds like a lunatic. Even if he were speaking in a different language I would be able to tell that something was wrong with his thinking.
I am so happy and blessed to be free from that insanity.
Ozzy.. you are an absolute gem and perfect example of someone who has no faith in anything except HUMAN REASONING!
plenty of miracles have been documented!! No matter how much evidence there is presently in this day and age you would much rather resort to HUMAN REASONING apart from the Word of God. Nothing is sacred or holy to you except some drug addict !!
There is plenty of evidence. YOU just choose to ignore it and deny the simple truth.
Ozzy.. you are an absolute gem and perfect example of someone who has no faith in anything except HUMAN REASONING!
plenty of miracles have been documented!! No matter how much evidence there is presently in this day and age you would much rather resort to HUMAN REASONING apart from the Word of God. Nothing is sacred or holy to you except some drug addict !!
There is plenty of evidence. YOU just choose to ignore it and deny the simple truth.
I have not said that miracles do not occur. I just am questioning their existence in this particular book, the Bible. Some Christians say that if we don't accept the major miraculous suggestions such as the Trinity, the Resurrection of Jesus, then we are not saved and will be damned for eternity. I don't understand how people can be expected to accept that. Just because that claim is in the Bible, I don't see how God would hold us to accept things we have no way of knowing, other than wishful thinking. It would be very nice if the miracles were true, but to say that I can only be saved by accepting THESE SPECIFIC ones, just doesn't make sense.
I have not said that miracles do not occur. I just am questioning their existence in this particular book, the Bible. Some Christians say that if we don't accept the major miraculous suggestions such as the Trinity, the Resurrection of Jesus, then we are not saved and will be damned for eternity. I don't understand how people can be expected to accept that. Just because that claim is in the Bible, I don't see how God would hold us to accept things we have no way of knowing, other than wishful thinking. It would be very nice if the miracles were true, but to say that I can only be saved by accepting THESE SPECIFIC ones, just doesn't make sense.
NO one is justified by believing in miracles! That is not even written or suggested.
As many as received Christ into their hearts by faith - To them (Christ) gives the power to become Sons of God.
Read John 1:12 carefully - that will answer your questions!
Jesus said If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto ME.
Jesus did say.. These signs will follow them that believe.
Let me save you thousands of hours of research.
Jesus verified; Moses, Noah, Jonah, Daniel, and much more.
How did Jesus ever learn how to "read' ????
He never went to school - Yet he taught in the synagogue by reading from the scroll of Isaiah.
Why am I alive?. Doctors keep asking me that for more than 10 years. I have defied all odds and continue to do so daily. Who are you ? they keep asking me.
I have survived 15 heart attacks - I have survived 3 strokes one which left me totally blind. doctors assured me I would never see again. I laughed in their face. I had all sight restored in less than a month and that was 12 years ago.
Dwell on this simple preposterous statement made by Jesus Christ. If you abide in Me... and my words abide in YOU. THEN ... you may ask me anything & I will do it.
That... has not failed me once in over 60 years. It always works!
How is that possible? only one of two reasons. (hint) Jesus told the truth!! If he lied it would have been impossible to happen that many times spanning more than 6 decades.
I wonder if the original writers of the Bible had any idea that their miraculous/supernatural stories would eventually be read as literal history.
I have personally written little stories and fables myself. I was using symbolism to communicate things more powerfully than I could have done by saying it plainly. I'm not saying that what I did was good or special. Or even effective. But that may have been what the writers of Bible stories were doing. There is SO much symbolism with the numbers, the events, etc. I don't see how they could have been anything but fables.
The "prophecies" were written shortly after the events, also in a way to say that God had warned them by general revelation about the consequences of their actions. The idea of a "Daniel" type prophet hearing the warnings was symbolic as well.
What do you think?
This is what I think...
'Literal history' is a misleading term. The audiences of the Gospels (as I believe you are talking about) did not have the sharp sense of literal history that comes from being exposed to modern mass media. (How true the news might be is another question. But it is believed - or not - by modern audiences in a strict literal sense.) The audiences of those days were more concerned with the import of the stories, the meaning behind the purported facts, than with the facts themselves. It is not that they considered the Gospels to be merely fables presenting moral principles or whatever. They took the stories at face value but were not especially critical of facts simply because that was not part of their mindset. It was the meaning of the story to the reader or hearer that mattered.
Miracle stories were intended to impress the audience and to justify the authority of Jesus as something special. But they were not themselves the message. The symbolism, as you call it, was for the most part just tie-ins to existing scriptures or beliefs. They were intended to identify Jesus as the Messiah, heralding the imminent end of days and the need to return to true righteousness. ‘Post-dated’ prophecies are an old story in the Bible and the 'big one' - the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple – is to my mind a major factor in the Synoptic Gospels having been written. But that is too long a story for this post.
'Literal history' is a misleading term. The audiences of the Gospels (as I believe you are talking about) did not have the sharp sense of literal history that comes from being exposed to modern mass media. (How true the news might be is another question. But it is believed - or not - by modern audiences in a strict literal sense.) The audiences of those days were more concerned with the import of the stories, the meaning behind the purported facts, than with the facts themselves. It is not that they considered the Gospels to be merely fables presenting moral principles or whatever. They took the stories at face value but were not especially critical of facts simply because that was not part of their mindset. It was the meaning of the story to the reader or hearer that mattered.
Miracle stories were intended to impress the audience and to justify the authority of Jesus as something special. But they were not themselves the message. The symbolism, as you call it, was for the most part just tie-ins to existing scriptures or beliefs. They were intended to identify Jesus as the Messiah, heralding the imminent end of days and the need to return to true righteousness. ‘Post-dated’ prophecies are an old story in the Bible and the 'big one' - the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple – is to my mind a major factor in the Synoptic Gospels having been written. But that is too long a story for this post.
Did I answer your original question?
So your opinion is that the original Christians did not read the gospels literally?
Ozzy have you considered that more books are written about the apostle Paul than any other person on this planet??
Have you ever taken the time to even read what the apostle Paul had to say???????????????
He wrote 3 books - that are each based on just one verse. Oh but you knew that already eh?? Habakkak 2:4 The Just shall live by faith.
The book of Romans is the greatest book ever written about LOGIC!!!
PAUL QUOTES EXTENSIVELY FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT (greek). Yeah I know the old testament was written in Hebrew. But no one in Jesus day could read that language. Everyone spoke and was fluent in Greek!! 285 B.C. The old testament was translated in Greek by 70 Scholars. The Septuagint The LXX = 70.
Yes the original Christians did read and believed the words literally. i.e. The wages of Sin is death!!
I just don't understand why you have such great difficulty in believing God's Words.
Ask & You SHALL RECEIVE. That my friend is called - "A Promise"!! It doesn't say you might - It doesn't say maybe.
Do you know any electricians?? Ask any one of them concerning the electrical code book - what does the word SHALL mean.??
It simply means you have to do it in this manner and there are no exceptions or other ways around it.
tisk tisk, you seem to be so confused and all of your statements and sentence structures point to some one who is still in high school!
Yes the original Christians did read and believed the words literally. i.e. The wages of Sin is death!!
Yes, but he also said he was "dead in his sins." That means spiritual death, not physical death. It seems to be psychological.
The Bible doesn't make any claims about what happens after a person dies physically. You only believe it was literal because that is how you have been taught.
Yes, but he also said he was "dead in his sins." That means spiritual death, not physical death. It seems to be psychological.
The Bible doesn't make any claims about what happens after a person dies physically. You only believe it was literal because that is how you have been taught.
Incorrect!
Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
2 Cor. 5:8
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Luke 16
The rich man and Lazarus
1 Thess. 4
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
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