Explain validity of homosexual behavior (priests, sinners, atheist, grace)

[Wardendresden]

Originally Posted by justtitans

<snip>
So attacking Christianity is okay? It's okay to share what you believe is wrong with Christianity, but Christians can't talk about what they believe is sin???????? You don't see the problem with your logic?

Here is the sin "Christians" engage in constantly. They focus on the "sin" of a relatively small amount of people in the world--some five or six percent by outside estimates.

But in this nation we ignore the sins that are REALLY destroying the family. We ignore divorce. We accept into our churches divorced people (other than for adultery) because, oh, well, they made a mistake and prayed and God forgave them. Except they are still living in adultery themselves--according to the words of Jesus.

Now why concentrate on homosexuals? Because 40%-50% of our marriages are second marriages, and not that many from the reason of adultery of their spouse. If you are in this group of divorced people it is so much easier to divert attention away from the sin you are living in by pointing at homosexuals.

Can I prove it? Just look at the number of threads on CD that are focused on homosexuals--a very small percent of the population. What would be more interesting is to see threads on--

"Why it isn't biblical to divorce your spouse for other than adultery."
"Why gossip is more harmful to our spiritual community than homosexuality."
"Why finger-pointing at other people is not a holier than thou sin."
"Why your sin is greater than my sin, and, therefore, God is closer to me."
"Why tithing is a suggestion, not a biblical commandment."
"Why---fill in the blank for yourself.

Bottom line--every single sin mentioned in the list is far more prominent in church circles than homosexuality is in the community at large.

What was it Jesus said--"Take that plank from your own eye before trying to take the splinter from the eye of another." But of course, keep those sinful homosexuals out of our church---they might actually improve the morality that exists within it--at least they aren't hypocrites.

[Aeroman]

FYI , it will happen..

<God|NoGod>'s New Science of SameSex Procreation

[weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by justtitans

If I didn't know or recognize sin, then what standard am I supposed to live by? I am not telling anyone how to live their life. That is the problem with people like yourself, no offense. You assume that because someone like me has a strong opinion on something like this, that I am trying to tell you how to live your life. I am not trying to force you into anything. It's your choice. I am just stating to you what I believe which is based on the word of God. The fact that I don't affirm your own beliefs makes you feel convicted.



So what does love mean? Does it mean that I lie to you and ignore when you're wrong? If you were a parent and you saw your child about to stick their finger in an electrical outlet, would it be wrong to tell them that they shouldn't do that and that it's dangerous? Or should you just let them do what they want?



What does that have to do with this topic?

Do unto others. Hammurabi's Golden Rule.
It's really all one needs.

[weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by justtitans


What should we believe, what you think is right
and wrong then? If those individuals that you speak of actively participated in
what we are now discussing, many of us wouldn't even exist due to the inability
to procreate so how is that behavior even justified by that?

So, you don't believe in birth control?
After all, think of all the people who don't exist because daddy wore a condom.
You're not making a lick of sense.

[RedZin]

Originally Posted by justtitans

Two homosexual, mongamous beings (meaning they are the same sex), can procreate with one another? I think not.

Can they procreate? Yes. Can they procreate with one another? No.




So what's the point of being homosexual if you have to have sex with someone of the opposite sex?

It sounds like you are proving my point.



Are all heterosexuals infertile? No.

Are all homosexuals incapable of procreating with the one they are in their homosexual relationship with? Yes.

The point? Homosexuals, with themselves, in a monogamous homosexual relationship do not and will not ever have the ability to procreate without involving someone of the opposite sex in that process.

Heterosexuals, in general, have the ability to procreate, but the exceptions are strictly because of disability not because of biological design.

You don't have to have sex with the opposite sex to produce a baby if you're a homosexual. You can go to a sperm bank or hire a surrogate. You know, the sort of things that infertile heterosexuals do to have kids.

Besides, love isn't just about having kids. We're plenty fruitful here in the heterosexual community. We also seem to give birth to a fair amount of homosexuals, too.

[RedZin]

Originally Posted by SAAN

We can sum this whole issue up right here

Is Homosexuality backed by scriptures? NO
Is Homosexuality a sin according to scriptures? YES

Does God recognize marriage between anything other than a man and woman? NO
Is sex outside of marriage a sin according to scriptures? YES
Is homosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES
Is heterosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES

Does the bible say sexual immorality is a sin in the OT and NT? YES
Does the bible say people who practice sexual immorality will not go to heaven? YES


Its that simple, God doesnt hate a homosexual, even though he calls their lifestyle an abomination, he still loves them. What he hates is the sin of sexual immorality and it must be repented of and it applies to gay and straight people. Since God sees sex outside of marriage as a sin and will never recognize a gay marriage, homosexuality will always be sexual immorality.


IN THE BEGINNING

Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
----------

JESUS CONFIRMS WHAT MARRIAGE IS

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”


So Jesus taught from the Torah and it is pretty clear and straight forward that marriage is between a man and a woman only, so Gay marriage and homosexuality will never be okay in the eyes of God.


SEXUAL IMMORALITY IS A SIN AND A SIN AGAINST YOUR OWN BODY
1 Corinthians 6:18
18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.


Gay Marriage, Homosexuality, and Sexual Immorality is wrong, no matter how one tries to flip scriptures to suit them.

Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Rom 1:24-32, 1 Cor 6:9, Rev 21:8

Okay... so... even if all Christians accepted your interpretation of the scripture...

We're leaving out every other human in the world who isn't Christian. Soo... that said, homosexuality is wrong to SOME PEOPLE.

Which is what you're trying to say here and nobody would argue that with you.

So, if it's wrong to you, don't be gay?

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by RedZin

Yeah... I do recall that more than one wife was allowed, but I'm stretching to recall the part where you get girl-girl action along with your multiple wives. If we go by the "sex purely for procreation" logic, that rules out lesbian sex, no?

I mean, I personally have no issue with homosexuality in the first place, but let's just stick to the literal scriptures here.

Ahem.

Except there is nothing in the Bible banning sex for pleasure. If we are being literalists, I want you to show me where it says sex is meant only for procreation. Besides, I fail to see how a guy getting a 3some on with his wives can't lead to procreation.

And there is nothing in the Bible banning two wives having sex with one husband.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by ashleynj

So are you saying you like to watch lesbian porn and are hoping it's not a sin according to the Bible? haha.

I do like lesbian porn. I also like mff threesomes. Neither are a sin according to the Bible. I find it a stretch. If God is omniscient, I'm sure He would have known that the typical male with more than 1 wife intended to have sex with more than 1 at the same time, no? Surely He would have mentioned it.

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by bumpus7

No, I am not adhering strictly to Leviticus or the Old Testament.

I am a New Testament Christian, and my statements about homosexuality,
are based on the following Bible verses.



Rom:1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29: Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30: Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31: Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death,
not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

.

So, are you calling for the death sentence to be extended to homosexuals?

[cupper3]

Originally Posted by justtitans

.................
So God created murder and incest too?.............

He must have, as how else did Cain and Able find wives?