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I still don't get how believing that homosexuality is a sin automatically equates to us treating gay people with disdain or even hate. To play down the seriousness of sin is to disgrace Jesus sacrifice on the cross.
Well, way back in post #100 a homosexual stated what the kind of diatribe you and JJ and tthttf have done to him. I tried to give him a word of encouragement.
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Sorry Wardendresden, didn't mean to come across so mean. I used to be a Christain until they turned on me. You only have to look on this thread to understand why I have turned my back on God and no longer have room for him in my heart.
okie1962
God will hold you all responsible for driving people from Him.
More precisely . . . it proves they do NOT know Jesus.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I still don't get how believing that homosexuality is a sin automatically equates to us treating gay people with disdain or even hate. To play down the seriousness of sin is to disgrace Jesus sacrifice on the cross.
Believing it is a sin doesn't . . . but treating gay people differently with disdain or even hate is often the result of such beliefs. I venture that you seldom stick your nose into the adulterous relationships that undoubtedly surround you. I doubt you identify and select out for different treatment the gluttonous, the liars, the fornicators or the adulterers in your midst. I doubt you spend much time pointing their sins out to them in quite the way you do with gays! You are probably even guilty of many such sins yourself and do not suffer the kind of selective scorn, disdain, shunning, etc that is bestowed on gays.
You make most of the usual liberal lies and scare tactics that are simply assumptions and stereotypes. Just because I believe homosexual acts are sin why does that automatically make me mistreat them, degrade them or hate them? Did Jesus agree with tax collection (extortion) or prostitution? Of course not. Did He hate them? Mistreat them? Look down on them? Nope. So why am I, and others who believe the same, painted with your broad brush? Because it fits into your narrative?
Amazing.
Jesus may have been against prostitution, but did he constantly remind prostitutes that they're going to Hell with a smug look on his face while he did it? No.
Regardless of how you actually feel toward individual homosexuals, what you say to them and how you say it can be perceived as hatred. I have no doubt that every Bible thumper does not hate every gay person (though some clearly do), but sometimes you need to hear what is being said from an outside perspective. Look at it from the 'benevolent spectator' stance: what would a purely moral figure think of what is being said?
I still don't get how believing that homosexuality is a sin automatically equates to us treating gay people with disdain or even hate. To play down the seriousness of sin is to disgrace Jesus sacrifice on the cross.
There are many things on which I will never agree with you, but this is not one of them. If your religious belief system tells you that homosexuality is a sin, then it is understandable that you would interpret it as such. While I do believe that you are wrong in characterizing homosexuality as a sin, I also believe that you have every right to hold that view, and even to express it.
In fact, I'd go a step further - if you truly believe it is a sin, then you probably are obligated to speak out against it. We non-believers frequently defend our attacks on your faith by asserting that we have a moral obligation to speak out against that which we think is wrong, do we not? Well, then we can't very well expect anything less from you, can we?
I recognize that your beliefs (and your expression of those beliefs) are hurtful to people who are gay, and that is one of the things that cause me to reject your religion. But at the same time, while I have not read every one of your posts, I do not recall ever seeing you actually attack or insult anyone for their sexual orientation. Some would say that simply by calling them sinners, you are attacking or insulting them, but I really can't see it that way. You are simply speaking the truth of your heart, as you see it and feel it. Even though many of the people with whom you are constantly at odds over this issue are my friends, and people I like and respect a great deal, I don't agree with some of their characterizations of you where this issue is concerned. I think it's very unfortunate that you feel that way, but you have the right to feel what you feel.
But I do have two questions for you... first of all, do you (personally) draw a distinction between being gay and having gay sex? For you, where is the sin - in the act, or the orientation? Is a gay man who is celibate for his entire life still a sinner? And if so, how and why?
And the second question is one that I have always wanted to hear a Christian explain - why is that of all the sins that are possible for someone to commit, this particular "sin" almost always seems to be at the very top of your "OH MY GOD THAT'S AWFUL" list? What is it about homosexuality that invariably seems to send you guys into orbit? Because, I have to tell ya... there's something about that that seems kind of.. well... strange.
Believing it is a sin doesn't . . . but treating gay people differently with disdain or even hate is often the result of such beliefs. I venture that you seldom stick your nose into the adulterous relationships that undoubtedly surround you. I doubt you identify and select out for different treatment the gluttonous, the liars, the fornicators or the adulterers in your midst. I doubt you spend much time pointing their sins out to them in quite the way you do with gays! You are probably even guilty of many such sins yourself and do not suffer the kind of selective scorn, disdain, shunning, etc that is bestowed on gays.
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Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile
There are many things on which I will never agree with you, but this is not one of them. If your religious belief system tells you that homosexuality is a sin, then it is understandable that you would interpret it as such. While I do believe that you are wrong in characterizing homosexuality as a sin, I also believe that you have every right to hold that view, and even to express it.
In fact, I'd go a step further - if you truly believe it is a sin, then you probably are obligated to speak out against it. We non-believers frequently defend our attacks on your faith by asserting that we have a moral obligation to speak out against that which we think is wrong, do we not? Well, then we can't very well expect anything less from you, can we?
The problem with this is that it is unevenly applied across "sins" and almost exclusively targets gays . . . while virtually ignoring all other "sins." That speaks of something else entirely than honest concern for a sinner.
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I recognize that your beliefs (and your expression of those beliefs) are hurtful to people who are gay, and that is one of the things that cause me to reject your religion. But at the same time, while I have not read every one of your posts, I do not recall ever seeing you actually attack or insult anyone for their sexual orientation. Some would say that simply by calling them sinners, you are attacking or insulting them, but I really can't see it that way. You are simply speaking the truth of your heart, as you see it and feel it. Even though many of the people with whom you are constantly at odds over this issue are my friends, and people I like and respect a great deal, I don't agree with some of their characterizations of you where this issue is concerned. I think it's very unfortunate that you feel that way, but you have the right to feel what you feel.
They have the right to feel . . . but NOT the right to harass, deny basic human rights, selectively denigrate, scorn, shun or otherwise mistreat gays.
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And the second question is one that I have always wanted to hear a Christian explain - why is that of all the sins that are possible for someone to commit, this particular "sin" almost always seems to be at the very top of your "OH MY GOD THAT'S AWFUL" list? What is it about homosexuality that invariably seems to send you guys into orbit? Because, I have to tell ya... there's something about that that seems kind of.. well... strange.
It is not merely strange . . . it is pathological.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And yet you resort to the personal many times even making disgusting false comments about me having gay sex.
Your not going to find such a comment made by me. Show me.
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I even seem to recall you admitting that you enjoy mocking Christians. I have no respect for such tactics.
I've certainly mocked religion. But in a way that it makes you think. I mean, let's face it, some of the stories outlined in the bible are, well, let's just say their credulity is suspect.
It seems to me that you've replaced an addiction to sex and porn with an addiction to religious beliefs.
I do hope you realise that most gay and lesbian people are not porn and sex addicts?
Well I know that gay men have on average a lot more sex partners than hetros. Most of the gay friends I associated with have admitted to having many sexual partners. Some of them are certainly sex addicts for sure or if they are currently not used to be. I certainly know people who are certainly sex addicts and still go and cruse for sex, and go looking for sex on grindr and applications like that.
Yet not all gay men are sex addicts but having hundreds of sex partners in a lifetime is certainly heading the direction of it and many, many gay men out there are sex addicts.
Here is some data on how many sexual partners a gay male has:
Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:
The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.[12]
Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]Family Research Council
But you do realize it was YOU that made all those changes and YOU that accomplished the changes in your life. You did it through religion, but that doesn't mean that at the end of the day your therapy wasn't the 100% result of you. Being gay wasn't the issue at all, and there's nothing wrong with being born gay. Your choices and your life weren't perfect and you had a lot of problems, but you can't blame that on being gay. There's a reason things can be very rough in the gay community and this sense of risk and being on the outside - but there's a very obvious reason why this is the case. It's in many ways a direct result of the persecution and hostility from the very source you are saying saved you. Keep in mind that religion might have been the way you personally reasoned with yourself to change your life, but religion is also a very huge reason that gay people are thrust into this position in the first place. Gay people are born the way they are and they're born a blank slate, but from the very start they're being set up for failure by the religious community by NO fault of themselves.
I did not follow religion, as Christianity is not truly a religion. It is a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't believe people are born gay and even though people out there claim there is proof that people are born gay there is not a great deal of evidence to suggest this, but we are all born sinners and the bible is clear on that.
Just because someone goes to church and says they are a Christian does not mean they are a true Christian. saying that gays should be sentenced to death or harassing a person because of they being gay is not really Christian. As a Christian we are to love people as the Lord loves all of us.
The bible does not condemn homosexual people as a people, but those that act out on homosexual offences just as the bible states if a unmarried straight couple have sex outside of marriage it is a sin.
Yet how I do my best in life to the treatment of all others: Phillippians 2:3-5
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus
The Lord Jesus loves all of us and he died for our our sins. No matter what you have done wrong Jesus is willing to forgive you, if you let him in and ask him to be your personal saviour.
Last edited by other99; 12-09-2014 at 01:27 AM..
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