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I recognize that. And telling the drunkard that his alcoholism is ok and is acceptable can seem more loving. Or telling the adulterer that it's not HIS fault that he is more drawn to his secretary than the hag he's married to may SEEM to be the understanding thing to do.
I realize that. And this world is full of parents that would rather just be their kid's friend than to do the loving thing and tell them that their behavior is harmful.
I think we will have to disagree on this. I see what you are teaching as horrific, heaping inescapable guilt fear, shame, and doubt on people. The harm that was done by the religious teachings you espouse may observable and measurable in my own life. The harm that it was supposedly "saving" me from is not now, and have never been in evidence. My life is better, I have more of the "Fruit of the Spirit" present in my daily life, I can love and support other more easily since I left the faith. From my perspective, it is no different than if you were offering to amputate children's limbs to keep them from being dragged under the bed by the imaginary monster, it is real harm to ward off an imaginary evil.
But all that is simply to point out that it must be even harder to be someone who has some inherent trait that is condemned as strongly and harshly as homosexuality. I applaud believers who have found a way to reconcile a more understanding, gentle, and inclusive approach to homosexuality. It is a hard place to be, between the wrath of an angry God and your own genetics, and I am not convinced that Christianity has to offer that as the only option.
From my perspective, it is no different than if you were offering to amputate children's limbs to keep them from being dragged under the bed by the imaginary monster, it is real harm to ward off an imaginary evil.
Is this being ignored because most of it...well...all of it is so wrong that it's not worth bothering with?
Too bad Janelle bases her condemnation on such a combination of error (Onan story), and tripe (the rest)
LOL I saw this too and almost burst out laughing. Anyone who thinks Onan was killed for "Spilling his Seed on the Ground" didn't bother to read the whole story or understand ancient Hebrew Culture. I'm amazed anyone still uses that argument. Never underestimate the power of Ascetic tradition and its influence I suppose. I also think lust is biblically very misunderstood but I won't go into depth here since its only partially on topic...but read the tenth commandment and then the Tyndales Bible version (the first english bible version/translation) of Matthew 5:27-28 and you'll get an idea of why Words aren't always translated in the most non-biased fashion especially when they can mean two different things.
Last edited by Jrhockney; 01-30-2015 at 07:40 PM..
Is this being ignored because most of it...well...all of it is so wrong that it's not worth bothering with?
Too bad Janelle bases her condemnation on such a combination of error (Onan story), and tripe (the rest)
There are many posts on this forum which warrant frowns and eye rolls but aside from muttered "wtf...?s" - there are no words.
You know, this is part of what made me question Christianity. It seems so destructive!
It appears that you are saying that God would prefer a gay man to live with a constant guilt for desiring other men, slipping up and "sinning", and then begging forgiveness, rather than having a lifelong monogamous relationship with a loving partner. Its almost as if God created homosexuals to live under guilt and condemnation, fear and regret, instead of having stable, loving relationships. That seems, well, not so omnibenevolent...
-NoCapo
No. God is saying to live for him and to follow his commandants since He gave them to us for our own good. Having unnatural sex that not in God's plan. There are also many other sexual sins, we all know them. God is not pleased with any sin. Living with constant guilt isn't possible if we live doing what God teaches us.
Last edited by janelle144; 01-31-2015 at 01:00 AM..
LOL I saw this too and almost burst out laughing. Anyone who thinks Onan was killed for "Spilling his Seed on the Ground" didn't bother to read the whole story or understand ancient Hebrew Culture. I'm amazed anyone still uses that argument. Never underestimate the power of Ascetic tradition and its influence I suppose. I also think lust is biblically very misunderstood but I won't go into depth here since its only partially on topic...but read the tenth commandment and then the Tyndales Bible version (the first english bible version/translation) of Matthew 5:27-28 and you'll get an idea of why Words aren't always translated in the most non-biased fashion especially when they can mean two different things.
www.ewtn.com you can do a search on this web site. Click on search.
"By the ancient custom--later to become the law of God in the time of Moses--in order that the family name would live on through a man’s descendants, if a brother died leaving a widow and no sons, then it was the duty of his brother to take his widow as his own and produce offspring from the relationship. Onan not only failed to fulfill this command of God, but committed an additional violation of the law of God by spilling his seed on the ground, that is, withdrawal during the act of sexual intercourse. His sin was twofold and showed contempt for God and nature. Incidentally, this biblical account is important to keep in mind in the whole matter of contraception which is against the law of God and nature. Sexual intercourse is intended to be fruitful and one must have at least the openness to the possibility of new life; Onan showed contempt for life and law."
Last edited by janelle144; 01-31-2015 at 02:21 AM..
"By the ancient custom--later to become the law of God in the time of Moses--in order that the family name would live on through a man’s descendants, if a brother died leaving a widow and no sons, then it was the duty of his brother to take his widow as his own and produce offspring from the relationship. Onan not only failed to fulfill this command of God, but committed an additional violation of the law of God by spilling his seed on the ground, that is, withdrawal during the act of sexual intercourse. His sin was twofold and showed contempt for God and nature. Incidentally, this biblical account is important to keep in mind in the whole matter of contraception which is against the law of God and nature. Sexual intercourse is intended to be fruitful and one must have at least the openness to the possibility of new life; Onan showed contempt for life and law."
Ok first of all, your link is broken. Secondly...yes, God was mad that Onan was robbing his brother and Tamar from offspring (a big no-no in Hebrew culture) and in this case: a super-critical, eventually Christ lineage producing Child!...all while still using Tamar for sex ; HOWEVER, the added "offense" of spilling the seed on the ground based on what is written in the bible is archaic nonsense. It's even bigger nonsense from a scientific standpoint. I really shouldn't have to explain why if you know anything about the standard workings of male anatomy but in this case, God would be responsible for creating a mechanism that spills it whether we want to or not....Oh no! God endorsed sacred sperm abortions??!!! ...Furthermore, as I mentioned in another thread: the Catholic Church has already allowed for evolution but it can't allow for contraception inspite of this new knowledge??!! Don't get me wrong, I value tradition, but some traditions need to die when they are based on bad information or half truths and ultimately become destructive.
Note to the moderators: no, we are not completely off topic because sadly, the homosexual sex debate includes this as a part of the argumentation. It's one of the many pieces of the puzzle and the complexity and number of puzzle pieces causes me not want to post on homosexuality threads very often because its too much writing! lol.
Last edited by Jrhockney; 01-31-2015 at 02:19 AM..
"Calvin also commented on the story of Onan: "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born a hoped for offering" (Commentary on Genesis). Interestingly, two of the leaders of the Protestant movement both condemned a practice which suppressed the procreative dimension of marital love."
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Words aren't always translated in the most non-biased fashion especially when they can mean two different things.
This will tell why we have the bible but also tradition
; HOWEVER, the added "offense" of spilling the seed on the ground based on what is written in the bible is archaic nonsense. It's even bigger nonsense from a scientific standpoint. I really shouldn't have to explain why if you know anything about the standard workings of male anatomy but in this case, God would be responsible for creating a mechanism that spills it whether we want to or not....Oh no! God endorsed sacred sperm abortions??!!! 
...Furthermore, as I mentioned in another thread: the Catholic Church has already allowed for evolution but it can't allow for contraception inspite of this new knowledge??!! 
Don't get me wrong, I value tradition, but some traditions need to die when they are based on bad information or half truths and ultimately become destructive.
