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The single most damaging thing about the Christian view of sin is the idea that we ARE what we DO. So many people teach this wrong idea to their children early on and it does much damage. We are born selfish as a characteristic of our survival. Telling little Johnny that if he was a GOOD boy he would WANT to share his candy bar with his brother is very damaging. Little Johnny knows in his heart of hearts he does NOT want to share his candy bar. That causes him to believe he is NOT really a GOOD boy . . . even if he eventually decides to share his candy bar.
We are so much more than what we do. We do many things, good, bad and indifferent. They do not define us. The maturity of our Spirit in love of God and each other through our lifetime defines us. We can change the "bad stuff" we have done through repentance and correction . . . or we can have it refined out as dross after death. But WE are not defined by the bad that we do. We are NOT "filthy rags" as so many Christians believe. We are NOT born with ANY sin . . . sin is missing the mark and at birth we have not had any opportunity to even try to hit any mark. It is our undiscriminating and selfish animal nature that is the source of all bad behavior. It takes time to learn to control it. but as we do we produce more Good than Bad . . . "30 fold, 60 fold or 100 fold."
Mystic, I'm certain that my post will not relate to the intention you have for this thread, but I can't help myself.
In pondering the issue of why animals endure suffering, of why nature is "red in tooth and claw" as I've heard you express it, Mystic, I realized that I have always assumed it was humanity that is responsible for causing our world to be out of harmony with Love/God (as evangelical Christianity teaches). So, since humanity didn't come on the scene until late in the game, it was impossible to reconcile the problem.
However, like us, animals were born with a simple instinct for survival. As a whole, none of us have developed in God consciousness to the point where we rise above that instinct consistently. That does not make any of us bad, merely undeveloped. But it explains, in my mind (to a degree) why our fellow creatures are just as prone to suffering as we are and why humanity was not necessary for the introduction of suffering.
Mystic, I'm certain that my post will not relate to the intention you have for this thread, but I can't help myself.
I am used to you independent women deciding things for yourselves, Pleroo!
Quote:
In pondering the issue of why animals endure suffering, of why nature is "red in tooth and claw" as I've heard you express it, Mystic, I realized that I have always assumed it was humanity that is responsible for causing our world to be out of harmony with Love/God (as evangelical Christianity teaches). So, since humanity didn't come on the scene until late in the game, it was impossible to reconcile the problem.
However, like us, animals were born with a simple instinct for survival. As a whole, none of us have developed in God consciousness to the point where we rise above that instinct consistently. That does not make any of us bad, merely undeveloped. But it explains, in my mind (to a degree) why our fellow creatures are just as prone to suffering as we are and why humanity was not necessary for the introduction of suffering.
Perhaps.
The rather immature and primitive interpretation in mainstream Christianity that asserts that humankind instituted suffering by disobeying God about eating a fruit . . . is patently absurd. It is our consciousness that enables us to understand the concept of Good and Bad. It is our capacity for self-reflection that enables us to experience a unique form of suffering. All animals feel pain and suffer from it . . . but we seem uniquely fated to internalize our suffering into a kind of self-pity that can extend its life well beyond the incident that caused the pain. When these issues come up I am reminded of a quote from the Movie GI Jane by the character Master Chief John James Urgayle:
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
The single most damaging thing about the Christian view of sin is the idea that we ARE what we DO.
Try telling that to a judge. But it is important to note, that apart from the Holy Spirit we can neither overcome sin nor do anything pleasing to God.
1 John 3
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
I realized that I have always assumed it was humanity that is responsible for causing our world to be out of harmony with Love/God (as evangelical Christianity teaches). So, since humanity didn't come on the scene until late in the game, it was impossible to reconcile the problem.
There is absolutely no reason to believe in an old earth or evolution. Those theories are full of holes from every angle. The evidence is far from conclusive as is commonly taught and believed.
I also don't see any Biblical reason to assume that animals were not created to eat meat from the beginning. Certainly common sense will tell you that a T-Rex or lion was not eating leaves from a tree. Pain was and is necessary for both animals and people as a built in defense mechanism to prevent behavior which would cause physical injury and death. It's also a great motivator, like hunger.
The single most damaging thing about the Christian view of sin is the idea that we ARE what we DO. So many people teach this wrong idea to their children early on and it does much damage. We are born selfish as a characteristic of our survival. Telling little Johnny that if he was a GOOD boy he would WANT to share his candy bar with his brother is very damaging. Little Johnny knows in his heart of hearts he does NOT want to share his candy bar. That causes him to believe he is NOT really a GOOD boy . . . even if he eventually decides to share his candy bar.
We are so much more than what we do. We do many things, good, bad and indifferent. They do not define us. The maturity of our Spirit in love of God and each other through our lifetime defines us. We can change the "bad stuff" we have done through repentance and correction . . . or we can have it refined out as dross after death. But WE are not defined by the bad that we do. We are NOT "filthy rags" as so many Christians believe. We are NOT born with ANY sin . . . sin is missing the mark and at birth we have not had any opportunity to even try to hit any mark. It is our undiscriminating and selfish animal nature that is the source of all bad behavior. It takes time to learn to control it. but as we do we produce more Good than Bad . . . "30 fold, 60 fold or 100 fold."
Quote:
Originally Posted by john233
Try telling that to a judge. But it is important to note, that apart from the Holy Spirit we can neither overcome sin nor do anything pleasing to God.
That is such a bankrupt view of humanity it could only have ever been devised by ignorant primitive savages with no conception of God at all. Why on earth would God create such vile and worthless creatures????
"You have defied me in word says the Lord. You have said it is vain to serve God and what do we profit by going around in penitential dress in awe of the Lord of Hosts when even evildoers prosper and tempt God with impunity." "Then those who revered the Lord spoke with one another and the Lord listened attentively and a book was opened and a record kept of those who revered the Lord and trusted in His name. They will be my own special possession when I take action says the Lord and I will have compassion on them as a man has compassion on His son who serves him. Then you shall again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked between those who serve God and those who do not serve Him."
The single most damaging thing about the Christian view of sin is the idea that we ARE what we DO. So many people teach this wrong idea to their children early on and it does much damage. We are born selfish as a characteristic of our survival. Telling little Johnny that if he was a GOOD boy he would WANT to share his candy bar with his brother is very damaging. Little Johnny knows in his heart of hearts he does NOT want to share his candy bar. That causes him to believe he is NOT really a GOOD boy . . . even if he eventually decides to share his candy bar.
We are so much more than what we do. We do many things, good, bad and indifferent. They do not define us. The maturity of our Spirit in love of God and each other through our lifetime defines us. We can change the "bad stuff" we have done through repentance and correction . . . or we can have it refined out as dross after death. But WE are not defined by the bad that we do. We are NOT "filthy rags" as so many Christians believe. We are NOT born with ANY sin . . . sin is missing the mark and at birth we have not had any opportunity to even try to hit any mark. It is our undiscriminating and selfish animal nature that is the source of all bad behavior. It takes time to learn to control it. but as we do we produce more Good than Bad . . . "30 fold, 60 fold or 100 fold."
We are subjected to sin and evil for a PURPOSE. And I absolutely agree, tho I forget it myself it many times, that because you give in to temptation doesn't mean you are evil or 'bad'. God will finish the work he started in due time.
thanks, Mystic. I needed that message this morning
We are subjected to sin and evil for a PURPOSE. And I absolutely agree, tho I forget it myself it many times, that because you give in to temptation doesn't mean you are evil or 'bad'. God will finish the work he started in due time.
thanks, Mystic. I needed that message this morning
Your posts are equally inspiring, Scarlet. Our hearts can tell when truth is spoken . . . as long as we do not allow the "precepts and doctrines of men" to confuse and mislead us.
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