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Right, I guess I got confused with all the other explanations you supplied as examples (I guess) of wrong understanding of the meaning of the term, but which are held by other fundamentalists. Sorry about that.
Wow. Complicated.
Have you ever heard of the KISS rule?
There's nothing complicated at all about what was said or about what theopneustos means. And I only gave one explanation by two different theologians. Unless you're referring to the different theories of inspiration that exist other than verbal plenary inspiration, and which I posted. At any rate it appears that this conversation has gone on long enough.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-20-2015 at 05:30 PM..
There's nothing complicated at all about what was said or about what theopneustos means. And I only gave one explanation by two different theologians. Unless you're referring to the different theories of inspiration that exist other than verbal plenary inspiration, and which I posted. At any rate it appears that this conversation has gone on long enough.
I AM referring to the different theories advanced concerning the new meaning of theopneustos which is used to displace the authority Jesus promised by a doctrine that has proven bankrupt in practice as witness all the different denominations, doctrines and interpretations that are promulgated by people who look first to the meaning of scripture and rarely if ever check to see how their perception comports with the fruit of the spirit.
"Inspiration" was never that complicated before "fundamentalism."
It seems to me you are claiming the Holy Scriptures aren't from the Holy Spirit, yet you are going to believe in God in your own little way. A different way, just like all those denominations, doctrines, and interpretations of others have been. Only you have a small feeling inside you thinks leads you and you think it is the Spirit.
Yet you deny this to the very authors of the books of the Bible whom could raise the dead!
It is actually a very good thing to be a fundamentalists! Even in our errors we still believe God! And that is what it is all about.
Quote:
I AM
No, you are not! Not even close!
All scripture is used for doctrine, reproof, teaching, whatever we want to call it. It doesn't matter if you believe or don't believe certain sections of it. And the same goes for me and Mike or the next person. God has the authority. It doesn't matter if the Lord used an Apostle for passing on commands or simply their opinions. Paul wrote in the same letter that he wrote the commands of the Lord, this is after he gave his opinion, so clearly Paul had the authority to do that.
Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to proclaim that Paul wrote Scripture!
You expect us to believe you instead? Not a chance buddy, you are fighting a losing battle when you fight against the Lord of Lords!
Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to proclaim that Paul wrote Scripture!
ANd Peter was the leader of the Church as per the words of Jesus in John 21: 17-17. The prince of the Apostles was in charge of the flock. And he walked on water and brought to life dead people.
ANd Peter was the leader of the Church as per the words of Jesus in John 21: 17-17. The prince of the Apostles was in charge of the flock. And he walked on water and brought to life dead people.
Sorry, I couldn't find "prince of the Apostles" or "in charge of the flock" there.
Seems that was the spot for Jesus. Even Peter said so, 1 Peter 5:4
You expect us to believe you instead? Not a chance buddy, you are fighting a losing battle when you fight against the Lord of Lords!
I think you have not been paying attention to what I have been saying. I expect you to look at what the Bible actually says about what is to be our guide and not deny that by putting spin on references that were never intended to give that authority away to what is written in a book. I expect you to recognize the operation of the Spirit by the fruit of the spirit. I expect you to demonstrate that you believe IN God by how you deal with your fellow humans whom God loves and not impose harmful perceptions on them.
I expect you to love.
I expect you to think
I am often disappointed.
Last edited by nateswift; 03-21-2015 at 12:42 AM..
Reason: additional expectationj
The pastor doing this interview leads the largest Uniited Methodist Church in America, some 8600 attend Sunday worship services in Kansas:
RNS: You believe the Bible is divinely “inspired.” Can you explain what you mean exactly?
AH: The biblical authors were people like us. Christians do not hold, as Muslims do, that our holy book was dictated by God. The biblical authors wrote in particular times, for particular audiences, out of a particular context. Part of rightly interpreting Scripture is reading it in the light of what we can know about its historical and cultural context, the author’s purposes in writing and knowing something about the people they were writing to.
In 2 Timothy 3:16 Paul writes, “All Scripture is inspired by God…” Christians often assume they know what this means, but Paul seems to have created the word “inspired.” It does not appear in the Greek language before this and is used nowhere else in the Bible. It literally means “God-breathed” but Paul doesn’t go on to explain precisely what he means. It is a metaphor, and metaphors are not precise. Push them too far and they break down.
When I think of inspired, I think of God-influenced. This leaves open a variety of ways in which the biblical authors were influenced by God.
-------------------
Mr. Hamilton got it wrong, however. Just like Muslim fundamentalists most Christian fundamentalists DO hold their holy book to be dictated by God. And they start from that premise. When faced with inconsistencies or failed prophecies, they feel justified in creating a story, which, if swallowed hook, line, and sinker, will provide justification for their views.
However, the only way that works is to declare the explanation as equally holy with the dictated "Word."
Is.9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Or this one.
Is.9:6-7
For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.
Is.9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Or this one.
Is.9:6-7
For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.
As already stated in post #5, divine inspiration - theopneustos refers to the original autographs. Not to the copies. You are comparing the Masoretic Text with the Septuagint and they are both copies. In the case of Isaiah 9:6-7 the Masoretic text agrees more closely with the Dead Sea Scrolls which is also a copy.
Dead Sea Scroll:
Isa. 9:6 For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will be on his shoulders. He is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the prince of Peace. 7] His government will expand, and peace will be endless for the throne of David and his kingdom, to establish it and to sustain it with justice and righteousness from now on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
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And that is what it is all about.
From mainline thinkers.
