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and after he has thrown out the law, there is no sin.
In the New Covenant, "sin" is not about breaking the law. "Sin" is a translation of "missing the mark" and under the New covenant the mark is different. The basis of the New Covenant is the New Commandment and it is not about rules, but about the condition of the heart, the commitment to act in love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
If Jesus and all his followers are lawless, then they were all deserving death by the law.
Whether they were "lawless" or not, Jesus was innocent and execution under the Law invalidated Law as a basis for judgment.
In the New Covenant, "sin" is not about breaking the law. "Sin" is a translation of "missing the mark" and under the New covenant the mark is different. The basis of the New Covenant is the New Commandment and it is not about rules, but about the condition of the heart, the commitment to act in love.
Whether they were "lawless" or not, Jesus was innocent and execution under the Law invalidated Law as a basis for judgment.
Jesus says that whoever keeps the laws of Moses and teaches others to keep it will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
We are shown tens of thousands of Jews who believed in Christ and because they believed , they became even more zealous in keeping the law for obvious reasons because there was no pressure in failing, but the Holy spirit is given so you don't fail.
That council that was called up in acts to decide whether Gentiles should keep the laws as Jews continued keeping the laws should really give people a clue that the Jewish believer never stopped keeping the law, but a gentile will take his pass on the law, and then they will turn it around and try to make it the same for the true brethren, and the brethren don't ever stop keeping the law because they love the law.
These brethren are named,'' Judah and Ephraim,'' and unless you fall under one of these names, there IS NO COVENANT!
Jeremiah 31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Gentiles are only adopted through an open door for the gentiles of Ephraim returning in repentance for calling the Torah a strange thing, and they have to be married to a Jew because they have to be redeemed into Israel because they were gentiles.
The first church was teaching the Torah to converts of Judaism who were gentiles that rejected all their former ways to convert to one religion where a Jew became one with a Gentile, IF the gentile would convert to become co heirs of the promise as Judah and Ephraim become one.
There was no difference between a Jew and the gentile after the gentile converted to Judaism and accepted the things that Jews accepted only there were many Jews trying to put restraints on these eager gentiles, and telling them they had to do certain things to be saved and this wasn't true.
But comparing the Christianity today to the first gentile believers cannot be done because the gentile don't look nothing like the Jew in these days, and the gentile left the Jew, he called the Torah a strange thing and appointed his own Holy city, and rejected the laws of God and invented his own worship system apart from Jesus, and so separated from Judah and Jews that the two couldn't possibly become one.
That brotherhood was broken long ago, and it is no longer true that Jesus has made the two one because of the sheer fact that the two are not one.
In order for the covenant to work, the two must become one and if they are separated, it is as if the servant has been cut in half and one cannot stand alone.
Yes, Jesus brought a new covenant to Ephraim and Judah and ONCE AGAIN, Ephraim BROKE that covenant.
ONCE AGAIN, The house of Joseph has walked away from the house of Judah, and once again the people living next to Judah has called the Torah a strange thing and the Holy city of Jerusalem a strange things with all it's appointed feasts, and there is no covenant until Ephraim comes returning AGAIN, and again he repents and comes back to the respect of Torah.
Extremely lawless to the point that a Christians can't really look at any sinner and say anything. A Christian can't fight to keep the ten commandments on the wall because he doesn't believe in the ten commandments and after he has thrown out the law, there is no sin.
What is righteous has become evil and what was evil has become righteous and it would seem that the whole agenda of Christianity is to just bring down the law, and that's all I hear. How God was wrong, how Jesus was wrong, how Jesus and Paul were lawless sinners who taught people against the law and thereby deserving the persecution and death they went to.
If Jesus and all his followers are lawless, then they were all deserving death by the law.
Christians are not lawless.
Christians, Messianic Jews, Messianic Hebrews all believe
-There is 1 God
-Not to worship Idols
-Not to take name in vain
-Honor Parents
-Dont steal
-Dont kill
-Dont covet
-Dont bear false witness
-Dont commit adultery
-Refrain from sexual immorality (Lev 18 laws of sexual conduct)
They may differ from Messianic in regards to:
-Sabbath Day
-Feast Days
-Dietary laws
-How they say the names of God and Jesus
-tzitzit
But other wise they keep the same commands and believe in the same path of salvation that Jesus ( Yahushah) is the only way to the father. Yes there might be alot of differences in doctrines on the Trinity, Rapture, Baptism, Tattoos, and a few other doctrines.
But other wise are pretty much 90% in agreeance on the hundreds of commands in the OT and the ones carried over to the NT. I do see where you are coming from in regards to many Christians thinking the laws of God are abolished, which could make them seem lawless, but No one is perfect, so when you refer to Christians as lawless, you are just as lawless when the bible states not to judge your neighbor, which is breaking a command as well.
Christians, Messianic Jews, Messianic Hebrews all believe
-There is 1 God
-Not to worship Idols
-Not to take name in vain
-Honor Parents
-Dont steal
-Dont kill
-Dont covet
-Dont bear false witness
-Dont commit adultery
-Refrain from sexual immorality (Lev 18 laws of sexual conduct)
They may differ from Messianic in regards to:
-Sabbath Day
-Feast Days
-Dietary laws
-How they say the names of God and Jesus
-tzitzit
But other wise they keep the same commands and believe in the same path of salvation that Jesus ( Yahushah) is the only way to the father. Yes there might be alot of differences in doctrines on the Trinity, Rapture, Baptism, Tattoos, and a few other doctrines.
But other wise are pretty much 90% in agreeance on the hundreds of commands in the OT and the ones carried over to the NT. I do see where you are coming from in regards to many Christians thinking the laws of God are abolished, which could make them seem lawless, but No one is perfect, so when you refer to Christians as lawless, you are just as lawless when the bible states not to judge your neighbor, which is breaking a command as well.
Can you understand the difference between lawlessness and saying that law is not enough? That lawdoes not get to the heart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
It did with David...
Good point. Law did not get there even for David, but he took it into his heart. If law matches what is already in our hearts, we can do that too. When A law contradicts we can't.
Christians, Messianic Jews, Messianic Hebrews all believe
-There is 1 God
-Not to worship Idols
-Not to take name in vain
-Honor Parents
-Dont steal
-Dont kill
-Dont covet
-Dont bear false witness
-Dont commit adultery
-Refrain from sexual immorality (Lev 18 laws of sexual conduct)
They may differ from Messianic in regards to:
-Sabbath Day
-Feast Days
-Dietary laws
-How they say the names of God and Jesus
-tzitzit
But other wise they keep the same commands and believe in the same path of salvation that Jesus ( Yahushah) is the only way to the father. Yes there might be alot of differences in doctrines on the Trinity, Rapture, Baptism, Tattoos, and a few other doctrines.
But other wise are pretty much 90% in agreeance on the hundreds of commands in the OT and the ones carried over to the NT. I do see where you are coming from in regards to many Christians thinking the laws of God are abolished, which could make them seem lawless, but No one is perfect, so when you refer to Christians as lawless, you are just as lawless when the bible states not to judge your neighbor, which is breaking a command as well.
Your hands prove whether you believe in the one God or you don't.
People can claim they believe in the same God but if a person is standing against the entire worship system of God, how is he in the same religion as the one true God?
Only in name?
We were informed that lawlessness would abound so much as to almost fool the elect, and this has become true when we see so many Christians speaking against the laws of Moses and contradicting what Jesus said about the laws of Moses.
But the first gentiles came under a covenant given to Ephraim and Judah, NOT GENTILES and Jews, but God has brought a new covenant for the gentiles of the lost kingdom of Israel to come and be redeemed through a marriage of redemption by marrying a Jew and thereby redeemed back into Israel to be Israel, and if you are not amongst this adoption to where you can proclaim,'' I am of Israel.'' then you are not under any covenant of God because the new covenant is very specific and it pertains to an adoption for good reason.
No adoption, no co heir.
Jesus took the stick of Judah to make it one with Ephraim and very briefly, this covenant stood when there was no difference between Jew and gentile because the gentile was adopted and become one stick, when Jesus took two men to make them one single man under the promised covenant that would make the two one.
But when the gentiles departed from Judah and they rejected the commandments of God and created their own worship system, changed the holy city from Jerusalem to Rome, and then rejecting everyone who still kept the feasts of Christ, why do you suppose it is still the same religion?
The brotherhood has been broken in two, and with the brotherhood, the covenant until gentiles will return as they are prophesied to return with respect to the Torah.
But how is a believing Jew the same as a Believing Gentile when both have different Sabbaths and feasts and laws?
On one hand people will say,'' There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,'' and this they say with great ease, but is it true?
Certainly not, there is a huge separation between Jew and gentile, and until that separation and breach is fixed, then the we all sit here and wait because one cannot be gathered without the other, and when people reject the covenant that Jesus brought, why would they think they were still under the same God in the same religion when everything they do is completely different than what the first church did?
Conversion is conversion.
If you convert to Islam, what will change about your life?
If you convert to Hinduism, what will change about your life?
As a convert, you will accept the Sabbath and feast days of Mohammed and you will follow the laws of Mohammed.
As a convert to Hinduism, you will do the same things and your hands will no doubt prove what God you worship because what else is there in conversion but converting to the actual religion that you say you are in.
God has his own peculiar religion and he has made many promises to gentiles who keep his Sabbaths and his feast days, and when they do this and the laws of God are always on their lips, God promises to seal them in their forehead and right arm for what Sabbaths and feasts and laws they observe and this is a sure promise.
If the promise is so great because you follow the Sabbaths and traditions and feast days of God that you receive a mark of protection that assures you life after death, why wouldn't you go on keeping what is so easy to keep and what brings such great reward?
But the people who keep the Sabbaths and feast days of Babylon as the world keeps his feasts, they are also marked in their forehead and right hand as a memorial between their Messiah of Babylon, while the children of God are sealed with the mark of Jerusalem.
Are people really in the religion of Christ when everything they do teaches Babylon?
The Feasts of Christ are lifestyles, they aren't days to celebrate but days that teach a person how to walk with his God.
We die daily in Passover and look for our sin, and Easter teaches something else.
We strive to die daily in order to sow our seed in the barley of Passover and the seed dies and it bears fruit, and then we walk in the wheat, and then in the fruit.
The 7 feast days of Christ are a progressive walk that teach a person how to climb a ladder from one level to the next, but how many Christians are waiting upon the prize of the end of this cycle?
People who keep the feast days of Christ are waiting on the promise of rain for the second coming of Christ when he gives people an outpouring of spirit that is twice what Pentecost brought.
It may not be a very big deal for a Christian to innocently keep Easter and Christmas, and I know that God judges their heart, and I know they are saved, I have no doubt about that.
But in doing so, nobody, but nobody has told these people what they could actually have if they truly learn the walk and begin walking in a plan that leads to abundant life through those feast days.
When the rain of the fall Holy days has fallen, Everyone is going to wail and cry because nobody told them about Shemini Atzereth.
It has been hidden for good reason.
This is why the times and seasons are changed because if people do not know the days of their visitation, then they will not receive at all.
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