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NO . . .Jesus is NOT wrong . . . YOU are. Your problem is worrying about laws. Christ said the two commands to love God and each other encompass ALL the law! If you understood the Spirit of the law as agape love . . . it would be easy for you to see this and know what is and is not acceptable to God who IS agape love. God is not interested in specific "tricks" to be performed in obedience trials. That was for the schoolmaster days of our primitive ancestors. We are to learn the Spirit behind the laws . . . NOT the letter. That Spirit is agape love . . . and that expands the scope of prohibitions enormously beyond any list.
The 21st century acceptance of barbaric and savage carnal-minded interpretations of God by our "natural man" forefathers is incomprehensible to me. Our "natural man" ancestors could not accept the "things of the Spirit of God" because they were terrified of Spirits. That same fear of God (who IS Spirit) pervaded their beliefs about God's motives . . . and apparently pervades your views of God's motives as well. The barbaric idea that God required blood sacrifices to appease His wrath against humans is preposterous savage thinking that we should long ago have outgrown. What kind of rational human being believes that our God is such a ruthless tyrant . . . and then claims to love Him????
Only by retaining the "natural man" carnal thinking could such a ridiculous idea be perpetuated for so long. If the true Spirit of agape love was ever applied to understanding God and His motives this barbarity would have long ago disappeared from religious dogma. It is the FAILURE to apply the Spirit of agape love to interpreting scripture that has caused the current majority anti-Christ apostasy prophesied for these latter days.
Jesus did not die on the cross so the barbaric God in the OT could be appeased by blood sacrifice . . . as our ignorant savage ancestors believed. The God Christ revealed belied those savage and barbaric beliefs about God. Christianity was to inculcate the new beliefs about God in a New Covenant . . . NOT perpetuate the old beliefs from the OT. Instead of realizing that the promises of the OT were fulfilled by Christ and no longer useful . . . the religious leaders incorporated what are completely opposite beliefs about God to those revealed by Christ.
This corruption has produced millennia of abuse and evil in the name of God. A true travesty! It continues today with the imposition of OT fear and evil beliefs about God to ostracize and mistreat others in the name of God. Satan could not have produced a more effective corruption of the agape love God seeks from us than the religious leaders have achieved by retaining the OT beliefs about the motives of God.
It never was about sacrifices to appease God's wrath. It has always been about agape love toward one another. It is a sea change in CONTEXT surrounding the interpretation of God and our relationship to Him. We ARE His children and we are to do as His first-born Son Christ did . . . be "born again" as Spirit upon our physical death. God does NOT hold our sins against us and there is no eternal torment to fear. There is nothing to fear from God whatsoever. We WILL reap whatever we sow and do not repent of . . . but no more and no less. That should be more than enough to occupy our concern.
Christ said "When you see me you see the Father." He provided the clearest and most unambiguous example of the Father. He was unjustly judged, horrendously scourged and crucified between thieves while letting a murderer go. What did He DO? This was the epitome of a LACK of mercy. Yet Christ smote no one and loved even His torturers and murderers unto death. THAT is our loving Father's MERCIFUL nature . . . NOT the wrathful, vengeful, eternally tormenting tyrant who cursed all His children over a fruit and needed blood SACRIFICE to appease Him for the continued wrongdoing of His children!!!
If you cannot see the stark difference between the God revealed by Christ and the savage barbaric beliefs ABOUT God in the OT . . . you will never understand the importance of agape love to knowing God and Jesus. You will remain under the veil of ignorance over reading the OT that Christ came to lift. You refuse to try to understand the message of the Gospel as Christ intended it to be interpreted. We use the same source but we do not use the same context of the nature of God.
You use the interpretations of God of our ignorant ancestors to interpret Christ when you should do the exact opposite if you are a Christian. Christians use the TRUE NATURE of God revealed by Christ to be agape love . . . to interpret the scriptures . . . NOT the OT nature of a vengeful wrathful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifice. That is why you fail to know God and Jesus. There is no way to reconcile the descriptions of God revealed by Christ with the barbaric ones in the OT. It is the descriptions that differ . . . NOT God and it is the descriptions revealed by Christ that are TRUE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Maybe you should look again at what Jesus says, cause it sure aint what you are saying.
Perhaps you should look again at what I wrote because you sure do not seem to understand it. The way you follow ALL the law is to follow the TWO commands of Christ to love God and to love each other every day and repent when you don't. They encompass ALL THE LAW. period! That is why the law does not disappear . . . but it is significantly EXPANDED to encompass far more things than any specific LIST. Think Spirit of the law . . . NOT letter of the law. The Spirit we are to follow is the Spirit of agape love who IS God.
Perhaps you should look again at what I wrote because you sure do not seem to understand it. The way you follow ALL the law is to follow the TWO commands of Christ to love God and to love each other every day and repent when you don't. They encompass ALL THE LAW. period! That is why the law does not disappear . . . but it is significantly EXPANDED to encompass far more things than any specific LIST. Think Spirit of the law . . . NOT letter of the law. The Spirit we are to follow is the Spirit of agape love who IS God.
Let's see, I post a scripture of what Christ said and asked if it was wrong or right and you write a big page that I didn't read because it only called for a yes or a no.
Jesus talks about the lawless and the people of iniquity and it aint good, he talks about the law in many places and it don't agree with you at all.
Again, a yes or no question.
Jesus said if we keep the laws of Moses and teach others to keep the laws of Moses, we will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
True, or not true.
We don't need explanations why Jesus is wrong, just say he's wrong cause I know you think he is.
true or not true, Jesus doesn't need your explanations why he was wrong.
Perhaps you should look again at what I wrote because you sure do not seem to understand it. The way you follow ALL the law is to follow the TWO commands of Christ to love God and to love each other every day and repent when you don't. They encompass ALL THE LAW. period! That is why the law does not disappear . . . but it is significantly EXPANDED to encompass far more things than any specific LIST. Think Spirit of the law . . . NOT letter of the law. The Spirit we are to follow is the Spirit of agape love who IS God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Let's see, I post a scripture of what Christ said and asked if it was wrong or right and you write a big page that I didn't read because it only called for a yes or a no.
It is obvious that you didn't read it. You seldom do. If you did you would actually have to THINK about what you claim to believe. Apparently that is too difficult for you. You like your simplistic list of tricks to perform in the obedience ring.
Quote:
Jesus talks about the lawless and the people of iniquity and it aint good, he talks about the law in many places and it don't agree with you at all.
To a mindless robot it might seem like that . . . but since the TWO commands ENCOMPASS ALL the law . . . there is no disagreement whatsoever. By doing the TWO you are doing them ALL automatically.
Quote:
Again, a yes or no question.
It can seem like a yes or no question to mindless robots . . . but not to THINKING human beings.
Quote:
Jesus said if we keep the laws of Moses and teach others to keep the laws of Moses, we will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
True, or not true.
We don't need explanations why Jesus is wrong, just say he's wrong cause I know you think he is.
true or not true, Jesus doesn't need your explanations why he was wrong.
See above about the TWO commands encompassing ALL THE LAW.
It is obvious that you didn't read it. You seldom do. If you did you would actually have to THINK about what you claim to believe. Apparently that is too difficult for you. You like your simplistic list of tricks to perform in the obedience ring. To a mindless robot it might seem like that . . . but since the TWO commands ENCOMPASS ALL the law . . . there is no disagreement whatsoever. By doing the TWO you are doing them ALL automatically. It can seem like a yes or no question to mindless robots . . . but not to THINKING human beings. See above about the TWO commands encompassing ALL THE LAW.
I wonder Mystic.
Do you Believe Jesus is the Son of God?
And Did Jesus want us to learn the Law he wrote and kept?
It is obvious that you didn't read it. You seldom do. If you did you would actually have to THINK about what you claim to believe. Apparently that is too difficult for you. You like your simplistic list of tricks to perform in the obedience ring. To a mindless robot it might seem like that . . . but since the TWO commands ENCOMPASS ALL the law . . . there is no disagreement whatsoever. By doing the TWO you are doing them ALL automatically. It can seem like a yes or no question to mindless robots . . . but not to THINKING human beings. See above about the TWO commands encompassing ALL THE LAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
I wonder Mystic.
Do you Believe Jesus is the Son of God?
And Did Jesus want us to learn the Law he wrote and kept?
Of course He is the Son of God. What He wanted us to learn and practice was love for God and each other every day and repent when we didn't. The Spirit of agape love is the Spirit of the law because God IS agape love. Worry over the letter of the law completely misses the point. The Spirit of agape love encompasses FAR more than any LIST could possibly do.
Of course He is the Son of God. What He wanted us to learn and practice was love for God and each other every day and repent when we didn't. The Spirit of agape love is the Spirit of the law because God IS agape love. Worry over the letter of the law completely misses the point. The Spirit of agape love encompasses FAR more than any LIST could possibly do.
The Letter of the law "sure".
What about the number of the Law.?
Or for that matter the Patterns given.
You speak of Love but are far from showing it.
I have only seen you attempt to Diminish Jesus in your own mind.
Your well is dry and offers nothing of Gods Word.
Eye for an Eye is a Truth that escapes you.
Spiritual warfare is above your head and you havent even joined the fight.
If a branch does not bare fruit and is content on living off the trunk it will be removed. Letter to the Romans.
As Jesus said it is the Word of God that gives Life. not bread alone.
And Jesus also warned of those who did not feed his brothers and sisters Matt 21 The Barren Fig Tree 18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry. 19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered. 20Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, "How did the fig tree wither all at once?"…
If you offer no food or drink you are not Baptized in one Spirit with Christ.
The Letter of the law "sure".
What about the number of the Law.?
Or for that matter the Patterns given.
You speak of Love but are far from showing it.
I have only seen you attempt to Diminish Jesus in your own mind.
Your well is dry and offers nothing of Gods Word.
Eye for an Eye is a Truth that escapes you.
Spiritual warfare is above your head and you havent even joined the fight.
If a branch does not bare fruit and is content on living off the trunk it will be removed. Letter to the Romans.
As Jesus said it is the Word of God that gives Life. not bread alone.
And Jesus also warned of those who did not feed his brothers and sisters Matt 21 The Barren Fig Tree 18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry. 19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered. 20Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, "How did the fig tree wither all at once?"…
If you offer no food or drink you are not Baptized in one Spirit with Christ.
Don't be so hard on yourself. It will all come to you in time, as it did for many of us. Eventually those who hear not only do, but they LOVE..
Don't be so hard on yourself. It will all come to you in time, as it did for many of us. Eventually those who hear not only do, but they LOVE..
I am stern because I love my brother. If I did not I would leave them be and hold my tongue.
If God were to have ignored me I would not be here today.
Love is sacrifice.
Of course He is the Son of God. What He wanted us to learn and practice was love for God and each other every day and repent when we didn't. The Spirit of agape love is the Spirit of the law because God IS agape love. Worry over the letter of the law completely misses the point. The Spirit of agape love encompasses FAR more than any LIST could possibly do.
Ephesians 6
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Ephesians 6:17 - And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 4:1-25 - Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. (Read More...)
John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Of course He is the Son of God. What He wanted us to learn and practice was love for God and each other every day and repent when we didn't. The Spirit of agape love is the Spirit of the law because God IS agape love. Worry over the letter of the law completely misses the point. The Spirit of agape love encompasses FAR more than any LIST could possibly do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled
The Letter of the law "sure".
What about the number of the Law.?
Or for that matter the Patterns given.
You speak of Love but are far from showing it.
I have only seen you attempt to Diminish Jesus in your own mind.
Your well is dry and offers nothing of Gods Word.
Eye for an Eye is a Truth that escapes you.
Spiritual warfare is above your head and you havent even joined the fight.
If a branch does not bare fruit and is content on living off the trunk it will be removed. Letter to the Romans.
As Jesus said it is the Word of God that gives Life. not bread alone.
And Jesus also warned of those who did not feed his brothers and sisters Matt 21 The Barren Fig Tree 18Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry. 19Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered. 20Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, "How did the fig tree wither all at once?"…
If you offer no food or drink you are not Baptized in one Spirit with Christ.
Well, it seems I have encountered another magical thinker with unreasoning credulity. When you embrace hatred and conflict and "eye for an eye" nonsense rejected by Christ we are simply not on the same spiritual plane. My turn to abandon discourse because it is fruitless. You will believe whatever nonsense you wish to believe and nothing I say or do can ever change that. You are loved whatever you believe . . . but I have nothing further to say to you.
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