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"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one (echad)! [NASB, ESV]
or
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (echad) LORD: [KJV, ERV]
The word echad need not be understood only as a numerical one as in one person, for in marriage a man and a woman are brought together in marriage as one flesh, a united one, though they are two people.
Gen. 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one (echad) flesh.
God is a united One. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit while being three distinct 'Persons' are One God.
Woman is not man, and Christ Jesus is not God.
But it does not mean that they cannot be of: The same Spirit; mind and heart.
That simply is not true. No one person or organization has ever had his or its hands on every New Testament manuscript so as to be able to 'invent' the deity of Christ or the Trinity. Long before the first Council of Nicea in A.D. 325, the manuscript known as P66 which contains John 1:1-6:11 and 6:35b-14:15, as well as bits of text between chapters 14-21 reads at John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. P66 is dated to c. A.D. 175, sometime between A.D. 15O-200. That's approximately 150 years before the Council of Nicea.
Dan Wallace states at 39:35 minutes into the following video that every single manuscript in every single language which contains John 1:1 says this.
As for what Jesus said in John 17:3 when He referred to the Father as the only true God, He was not excluding Himself from being God. He was speaking from the standpoint of His humanity and referring to the Father as the true God as opposed to all false gods. As a man, the Father is Jesus' God. But as God Himself (he is the God-man from the moment of His incarnation and virgin birth) He is co-equal with the Father and with the Holy Spirit.
The reality of John 1:1---- there is a single greek word for either-God or god= Theos
The correct John 1:1---- In the beginning the Logos was and the Logos was with( HO) Theos, and the word was Theos.
the difference--Ho Theos = the true almighty God( capitol G)--- plain Theos = god( small g) -- the Logos( word) was not being called The God--small g god carries the biblical meaning--has godlike qualities--for this reason( acts 2:22)-- Gods power went through Jesus.---- it was not Jesus' power.
You err on John 17:3--because at Rev 3:12( while a spirit sitting at the right hand of power) Jesus stresses 4 times in a single paragraph that he has a God.
The reality of John 1:1---- there is a single greek word for either-God or god= Theos
The correct John 1:1---- In the beginning the Logos was and the Logos was with( HO) Theos, and the word was Theos.
the difference--Ho Theos = the true almighty God( capitol G)--- plain Theos = god( small g) -- the Logos( word) was not being called The God--small g god carries the biblical meaning--has godlike qualities--for this reason( acts 2:22)-- Gods power went through Jesus.---- it was not Jesus' power.
You err on John 17:3--because at Rev 3:12( while a spirit sitting at the right hand of power) Jesus stresses 4 times in a single paragraph that he has a God.
That favorite argument of the Jehovah's Witnesses ignores the fact that the article frequently isn't used for God the Father either. For instance, In John 1: 6,12,13, and 18 God the Father is referred to without the article.
The reason John didn't use the article when referring to the Word as God was to distinguish Him from the Father, not to distinguish Him from God. If John had used the article ὁ [ho], if he had called the Word 'the God' that would have implied that Jesus and the Father were the same 'Person.' It would have made the terms Θεὸς and Λόγος interchangeable , amounting to Modalism.
John 1:1c - 'and the Word was God,' is qualitative, meaning that while the 'Person' of the Word is not the Father, He has all the attributes and qualities of God. The Word has the nature of God and therefore is God. Not the Father, but the Son. As New Testament Scholar and Greek expert Dan Wallace comments on John 1:1c and the lack of the article;
Such an option does not at all impugn the deity of Christ. Rather, it stresses that, although the person of Christ is not the person of the Father, their essence is identical. [Greek Grammar; Beyond the Basics, p. 269]
Regarding Acts 2:22, during His first advent, Jesus refrained from using His own deity apart from the Father's plan and will for Him, and relied on God the Holy Spirit. During His temptations in the wilderness Satan attempted to get Jesus to use His own deity to turn stones to bread. But He refused to use His own deity in order to benefit Himself (Matthew 4:3-4).
Concerning Rev. 3:12, from the moment of His virgin birth Jesus became the God-man forever. As man Jesus has a God.
Furthermore, Jesus is currently seated at the right hand of the Father in resurrection body. Not as a spirit. He didn't lose His resurrection body when He ascended into heaven.
That favorite argument of the Jehovah's Witnesses ignores the fact that the article frequently isn't used for God the Father either. For instance, In John 1: 6,12,13, and 18 God the Father is referred to without the article.
The reason John didn't use the article when referring to the Word as God was to distinguish Him from the Father, not to distinguish Him from God. If John had used the article ὁ [ho], if he had called the Word 'the God' that would have implied that Jesus and the Father were the same 'Person.' It would have made the terms Θεὸς and Λόγος interchangeable , amounting to Modalism.
John 1:1c - 'and the Word was God,' is qualitative, meaning that while the 'Person' of the Word is not the Father, He has all the attributes and qualities of God. The Word has the nature of God and therefore is God. Not the Father, but the Son. As New Testament Scholar and Greek expert Dan Wallace comments on John 1:1c and the lack of the article;
Such an option does not at all impugn the deity of Christ. Rather, it stresses that, although the person of Christ is not the person of the Father, their essence is identical. [Greek Grammar; Beyond the Basics, p. 269]
Regarding Acts 2:22, during His first advent, Jesus refrained from using His own deity apart from the Father's plan and will for Him, and relied on God the Holy Spirit. During His temptations in the wilderness Satan attempted to get Jesus to use His own deity to turn stones to bread. But He refused to use His own deity in order to benefit Himself (Matthew 4:3-4).
Concerning Rev. 3:12, from the moment of His virgin birth Jesus became the God-man forever. As man Jesus has a God.
Furthermore, Jesus is currently seated at the right hand of the Father in resurrection body. Not as a spirit. He didn't lose His resurrection body when He ascended into heaven.
And trinitarians ignore that the use of an anarthrous predicate nominative proceeding the verb (PVPN). It isn't JUST the word, with or with out "Ho" (Greek definite article), it is the sentence structure.
In the Bible EVERY use of such is translated as Indefinite. In John 1:1 for Trinitarins it is translated Definite, "God", even though they KNOW that leads not to the Trinity but to Sabellianism/Oneness. But they can't admit it. Wallace is a good Greek scholar but he is also human and has his own bias towards the Trinity so he adds his thoughts on theology to his comments on Greek and that hides the reality of the language.
A good example in John is 6:70. Same sentence structure and look at how ALL translations translate the PVPN.
I would like someone to show one PVPN in John or any of the NT that is translated as Definite or with a Capital Letter and not viewed as Definite??????? Just one?????? Maybe Mike you can ask Dr Wallace?
That favorite argument of the Jehovah's Witnesses ignores the fact that the article frequently isn't used for God the Father either. For instance, In John 1: 6,12,13, and 18 God the Father is referred to without the article.
The reason John didn't use the article when referring to the Word as God was to distinguish Him from the Father, not to distinguish Him from God. If John had used the article ὁ [ho], if he had called the Word 'the God' that would have implied that Jesus and the Father were the same 'Person.' It would have made the terms Θεὸς and Λόγος interchangeable , amounting to Modalism.
John 1:1c - 'and the Word was God,' is qualitative, meaning that while the 'Person' of the Word is not the Father, He has all the attributes and qualities of God. The Word has the nature of God and therefore is God. Not the Father, but the Son. As New Testament Scholar and Greek expert Dan Wallace comments on John 1:1c and the lack of the article;
Such an option does not at all impugn the deity of Christ. Rather, it stresses that, although the person of Christ is not the person of the Father, their essence is identical. [Greek Grammar; Beyond the Basics, p. 269]
Regarding Acts 2:22, during His first advent, Jesus refrained from using His own deity apart from the Father's plan and will for Him, and relied on God the Holy Spirit. During His temptations in the wilderness Satan attempted to get Jesus to use His own deity to turn stones to bread. But He refused to use His own deity in order to benefit Himself (Matthew 4:3-4).
Concerning Rev. 3:12, from the moment of His virgin birth Jesus became the God-man forever. As man Jesus has a God.
Furthermore, Jesus is currently seated at the right hand of the Father in resurrection body. Not as a spirit. He didn't lose His resurrection body when He ascended into heaven.
Paul--a true teacher of Jesus'--1Cor 8:6-- there is one God to all--the Father---period.
This anti-Trinity garbage again? The usual denials by the usual people never end. The doctrine of the Trinity which is held by the Protestants, the Roman Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox Church based on what is revealed in the Bible, but which is denied by various cults is that there is one God who subsists in three 'Persons'. The word 'Person' as applied to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not to be thought of in the same sense as when used of people, for God is Spirit. But there are three centers of consciousness within the Being which is God.
There is one true God: Deut. 6:4, John 17:3,
Yet the Father, the Son, and the Holy are all called God and are shown to be distinct 'Persons.'
The Father is God: 1 Cor. 8:6
The Son is God: John 1:1
The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4
Yet they are distinct from each other: 2 Cor. 13:14
And 1 Cor. 8:6 which is mentioned above is no more denying that Jesus is God then it is denying that the Father is LORD.
Yes, the Trinity is a Biblical concept, and no, the word 'Trinity' is not found in the Bible. It is the technical name given to the Biblical concept of one God in three 'Persons.'
Yes, this anti-Trinity garbage again ... but alas, not all Doctrines are equal in the big world of "christianity".
If only Lutherans had the name Jesus Christ in its title... like:
Jesus Christ and Lutheran Saints
why any opposing view to
Luther's Bible 1522/1534:
Luther's Catechism 1529
1) the Trinity/ Deity Doctrine, (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
The Father is called God
Galatians 1:1, Revelations 1:6
The Son is called God
John 1:1: 20:28, Rom 9:5, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit is called God
Acts 5:2-4
Jesus speaks of them individually as going in the name of Matthew 28:19
2) The Doctrine that Jesus is God (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
Ezekiel 34:11-12 ....the Sovereign Lord says: I myselfwill search for my sheep and look after them. ~ Jehovah
John 10:27 .... "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." ~Jesus
3) God's wrath remains on the unbeliever (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
John 3:36 ~ Jesus
would be considered an attack on my Church
Last edited by twin.spin; 05-01-2015 at 06:48 PM..
Yes, this anti-Trinity garbage again ... but alas, not all Doctrines are equal in the big world of "christianity".
If only Lutherans had the name Jesus Christ in its title... like:
Jesus Christ and Lutheran Saints
why any opposing view to
Luther's Bible 1522/1534:
Luther's Catechism 1529
1) the Trinity/ Deity Doctrine, (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
The Father is called God
Galatians 1:1, Revelations 1:6
The Son is called God
John 1:1: 20:28, Rom 9:5, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit is called God
Acts 5:2-4
Jesus speaks of them individually as going in the name of Matthew 28:19
2) The Doctrine that Jesus is God (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
Ezekiel 34:11-12 ....the Sovereign Lord says: I myselfwill search for my sheep and look after them. ~ Jehovah
John 10:27 .... "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." ~Jesus
3) God's wrath remains on the unbeliever (found in Luther's Bible/ Catechism / Lutheranism)
John 3:36 ~ Jesus
would be considered an attack on my Church
Satan is called God
Moses is called God
Solomon (Or David) is called God
David receives worship with God.
The word Elohim or Theos does not identify a person, but a position and many have that position as The God is:
ASV Deuteronomy 10:17 For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.
God the Father/Jehovah just has the ultimate position.
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