'Sound doctrine' has left the building! (fundamentalist, reasons, teachings, forgive)
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How do you know what it was meant to be? And I am pretty sure that what in the Bible (NT particularly) IS meant to be sound doctrine.
If however, you say that it is not and was not meant to be. Then what do you base sound doctrine on? Whatever seems good to you? What seems to to make good sense? Then what are are you doing that I am not? Oh you may claim that you are listening to God's advice, but how do you deal with those who claim the same thing, but come up with differing doctrine?
If you scrap doctrine altogether and just rely on some sorta Agape/Love feeling, what relevance can organized Christianity, let alone the Bible, be?
I am really curious to see how this reasons out.
The short answer is .....there is no relevance to organized christianity. . What is relevant is what works in our own experience, after all who wants anything that does not work?. Most of what i believed doctrinal wise when i was part of organized christianity to be quite honest and frank, did bugger all for me other than make me a devilish zealot, having believed that being a christian was about saving your arse from hell and then holding firm to the bible being the inerrant infallble word of God and quitting sinning( there is more frustration in that than anything in life). To be honest i am not sure what i am doing that you are not, all i can say about myself is, that there is a great desire within me to walk in peace and that peace to be undisturbed by reacting negatively to that which is around me, and that within the scriptures i believe there is found the way to walk in that peace. I also believe although others taught peace, Jesus Christ did in the more excellent way.
The authority is the truth of the statement as confirmed by the Spirit. <snip>
Why do you look to ink for authority, when your perceived authority names a different one itself? Does not your Bible say that Jesus promised us a guide to be with us forever? Why look for another guide?
I assume you are talking about the Holy Spirit in the Christian Trinity?
If so, how do you know what the Holy Spirit thinks on any given topic? Do you have some kind of communication with it?
Does everyone get the same essential message from the Holy Spirit, or does it give different guidance to different people?
I assume you are talking about the Holy Spirit in the Christian Trinity?
If so, how do you know what the Holy Spirit thinks on any given topic? Do you have some kind of communication with it?
Does everyone get the same essential message from the Holy Spirit, or does it give different guidance to different people?
Stop playing around, Freak. You have been told numerous times that God the Holy Spirit IS agape love. THAT is the ONLY kind of guidance we receive. If we are sincere and do NOT impose the "precepts and doctrines of men" about what we SHOULD know . . . it will always give us the same answers. Protect the well-being of ALL concerned because that is what agape love IS and that is what our God IS.
Jesus also exposed where the lying pen of the scribes added to the scriptures.
I do not dismiss the OT, I dismiss those things the lying pen of the scribes added to the OT.
the OT testified to Jesus. Jesus himself said ye search the scriptures thinking to find life but you will not come to me so that you might have that life. The scripture are nothing more then a treasure map to Christ, once the treasure is found the map is only good for reference to lead others to find Christ.
Again I do not disregard the OT, those who wrote the OT could not see to the end of their salvation, thus there are many errors in it in regards to God the Father, as they wrote what they thought about God, but as Jesus pointed out they did not know (have a deep knowledge of the Father) for Jesus said no one knows the Father but by me.
God bless you brother. I pray that we might work together to reveal the truth. I pray that regardless of our individual conclusions that we still abound in love toward one another. That through this discussion and investigation, Jesus will be honored and lifted up. I pray that whoever might read this may feel conviction to study for themselves and draw nearer to the Lord. Amen.
So here you are referring to Jeremiah 8. If you read the whole chapter it is fairly clear that this verse is speaking about teachers of the law spreading false interpretations of it. Not about falsehood or errancy in the scriptures themselves. The Jewish people have VOLUMES of books from the Rabbis who have studied the Torah forever. They STILL add to it. Sort of like a "Bible commentary" that has been continuing for thousands of years.
Even in the New Testament (Matthew 23) Jesus says "Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!" which in some manuscripts is translated "scribes and Pharisees". So essentially scribes and "teachers of the law" are interchangeable.
Ah, but he used the word “pen”, so obviously they were writing things down inaccurately or adding to the true Word.
If that were true then I think Paul wouldn’t have said “ All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Obviously Paul felt like the manuscripts HE had in his day were intact and untainted.
In fact if you really look at what Paul is saying here, it would be quite easy to draw the conclusion that without ALL OF SCRIPTURE, the man of God is INCOMPLETE and is NOT thoroughly equipped for every good work.
You also seem to assume that no one could have known (have a deep knowledge of the father) until Jesus incarnation. He has been evident throughout the OT, so that isn't really true.
Matthew and Luke state it this way “NO ONE KNOWS THE FATHER EXCEPT THE SON AND THOSE TO WHOM THE SON CHOOSES TO REVEAL HIM.” This doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't choose to reveal Him to many in the OT. In fact there are examples throughout the entirety of the OT.
Last edited by chadgates; 07-31-2015 at 01:32 PM..
This is so profound and yet so few comprehend it, little elmer. Jesus UNAMBIGUOUSLY revealed God's TRUE NATURE and what he really wants from us, yet the fundies continue to promote the leaven of the Pharisees by ignoring the New Covenant and following the words "written in ink" instead. Christians follow Christ who abides with us to the truth God has "written in our hearts," period . . . NOT the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
You seem to be making the same fundamental mistake we see so often here: because the Bible makes a true statemet the authority belongs to the Bible. The authority is the truth of the statement as confirmed by the Spirit. The fact that the Bible also makes untrue statements does not mean that everything in it is false either.
Why do you look to ink for authority, when your perceived authority names a different one itself? Does not your Bible say that Jesus promised us a guide to be with us forever? Why look for another guide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Yup, Peter said to Jesus, only YOU have the words of life.
Jesus did not turn around and say, no, no, no go to Moses and the prophets.
Reason being the OT knows practically nothing of the new covenant, it heralds it, but knows nothing of it.
Jesus death and resurrection tells us the old covenant has passed, thus the teachings of the old covenant have passed, behold a new covenant is here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
Why indeed? The problem arises when, where there are three gathered together, they cannot agree what colour the car is.
If the reference escapes you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs
The ongoing debates and disagreements on doctrine - which is the topic of this thread - shows in a thunderous way that the Spirit cannot be relied on as a sure guide to doctrine and obviously the Bible itself is not a sound guide to doctrine.
You seem to have misunderstood the guidance of the Spirit as something each of us gets to decide about for ourselves. It is NOT. It is absolute and unchanging . . . agape love. When three or more are gathered, they are NOT to use their own ideas of what God wants from us. They are to search their hearts and determine what agape love (concern for the well-being of everyone involved) would require. That is very different from each one deciding what color the car is, Arq.
Stop playing around, Freak. You have been told numerous times that God the Holy Spirit IS agape love. THAT is the ONLY kind of guidance we receive. If we are sincere and do NOT impose the "precepts and doctrines of men" about what we SHOULD know . . . it will always give us the same answers. Protect the well-being of ALL concerned because that is what agape love IS and that is what our God IS.
Yes, I've been repeatedly told that the Holy Spirit = Agape Love. Of course, I haven't yet been given a single shred of evidence to actually support that claim, but yes, I have been repeatedly told.
I've also been repeatedly told that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God(tm). I haven't yet been given a single shred of evidence to support that claim either, but whatever.
This is the problem with religion in society: we have people going around making extraordinary claims without providing any evidence at all, let alone the required extraordinary evidence. And the daft and the gullible are often attracted to these self-appointed authority figures, simply because they are in a position of authority.
In fact if you really look at what Paul is saying here, it would be quite easy to draw the conclusion that without ALL OF SCRIPTURE, the man of God is INCOMPLETE and is NOT thoroughly equipped for every good work.
We are a work in progress, and there are no original manuscripts.
The work that is to be completed will require that of the Spirit.
Search your heart, therein, you will find the truth.
Stop playing around, Freak. You have been told numerous times that God the Holy Spirit IS agape love. THAT is the ONLY kind of guidance we receive. If we are sincere and do NOT impose the "precepts and doctrines of men" about what we SHOULD know . . . it will always give us the same answers. Protect the well-being of ALL concerned because that is what agape love IS and that is what our God IS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
Yes, I've been repeatedly told that the Holy Spirit = Agape Love. Of course, I haven't yet been given a single shred of evidence to actually support that claim, but yes, I have been repeatedly told.
I've also been repeatedly told that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God(tm). I haven't yet been given a single shred of evidence to support that claim either, but whatever.
This is the problem with religion in society: we have people going around making extraordinary claims without providing any evidence at all, let alone the required extraordinary evidence. And the daft and the gullible are often attracted to these self-appointed authority figures, simply because they are in a position of authority.
There can be no resolution as long as you insist on demanding that ALL of the conflicting (and frequently nonsensical) views ALL be true. That is not a sincere search for truth. It is a self-defeating game. Why play it? Clearly you believe there is NO truth to be found. Fine. But this silly game has no purpose since it can never produce anything but nonsense. Pick one or the other and find errors WITHIN them . . . not between them and OTHER views. You just might be surprised to find one that is entirely consistent and non-contradictory. But then, that is not your goal, is it Freak?
There can be no resolution as long as you insist on demanding that ALL of the conflicting (and frequently nonsensical) views ALL be true. That is not a sincere search for truth. It is a self-defeating game. Why play it? Clearly you believe there is NO truth to be found. Fine. But this silly game has no purpose since it can never produce anything but nonsense. Pick one or the other and find errors WITHIN them . . . not between them and OTHER views. You just might be surprised to find one that is entirely consistent and non-contradictory. But then, that is not your goal, is it Freak?
Does anyone know what MysticPhd is trying to say here?
Does anyone know what MysticPhd is trying to say here?
Probably most.
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. What is relevant is what works in our own experience, after all who wants anything that does not work?. Most of what i believed doctrinal wise when i was part of organized christianity to be quite honest and frank, did bugger all for me other than make me a devilish zealot, having believed that being a christian was about saving your arse from hell and then holding firm to the bible being the inerrant infallble word of God and quitting sinning( there is more frustration in that than anything in life). To be honest i am not sure what i am doing that you are not, all i can say about myself is, that there is a great desire within me to walk in peace and that peace to be undisturbed by reacting negatively to that which is around me, and that within the scriptures i believe there is found the way to walk in that peace. I also believe although others taught peace, Jesus Christ did in the more excellent way.
